frame alignment check

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gjr

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After reading Rob Tuluie's first couple artilces on chassis alignment I'm trying to figure out how to check if the steering head is perpendicular to the swing arm pivot. The trouble is that the isolastic cradle is not the pivot. Does it make any difference, is close enough good enough for a Commando ?

Does any one know where to find installments 3 and 4 ( I get the feeling that 5 and 6 were never written) ?

Thanks

Greg
 
I have not read it for a while, but the bit about breaking the spoke that holds the end caps on the swing arm pivot sounds too familiar. Mine broke on the left side (flush with the cap). I will reread the article more carefully, but I recall it being a little over the top for a bike like mine.

The basic wheel alignment and rake angle are very close, but I would like to get the weave out of it and get the motor to sit upright in the frame.

Greg
 
Straightest Commando is unneeded detail just to see if stem square to swing arm. Put tube through stem and a rod through swing arm slots then back off and see if 90' or not. If ya can't tell then likely just fine. Frame rails nailed down on plywood or bench top would give base to actually measure from and mark/extend lines on.
 
Use the rear iso mount as a swing arm point, I found it hard to check steering head was square due to the angle, need to rethink checking method
 
Question,
I have read to check the alignment for the front and rear wheels to use the straight-edge method with the bike off
the center-stand.So I put it up on a lift with the rear wheel off the ground.Now if they are not in line,how do you correct
this? If by adjusting the rear axle adjusters?Then they say when tightening up rear axle assembly to spin the rear wheel
and Hit the brake to center tthe shoes on the drum.What do you do if settings are not the same?Does it have something
to do with the isos?
Thanks,
YING
 
Stringlines , a few bricks , a bit of tape , and a few bits of wood :lol: ( will give you a pretty good idea .
STand well back and close one eye .

Raiding the waste skip at youre local window makers will get you a pile of straight edges ,
and maybe a glass table .

Ignore all the angles . Put a straight edge on tubes to see if straight , or two and sight across , for parrallelity .

If theres no welts from impacts , the things massageable .
A big builders square is some use .

If its down to a bare frame , Pins through the Isos , a string line around , centred , and you can eye sight it .
A glass table for twist checking , and a ruler ( steel ) should read equal Ea Side .

Removeing a door from youre ranchsliders will be fine . 8) :lol:
 
The bike is not apart but now I understand how to correct the problem.
Thanks,
YING
 
L.A.B. said:

i have read through it twice now and it does point some direction home, but...

He goes on for a long time to say that the holes on each side of the frame should be the same side to side. He does not appear to check to see that the down tubes are symetrical about the steering head axis. And using a dial indicator on a air bearing is not much help for guys with a vice grip and a ball pein hammer. 35 thou over 8.75" is only a quarter of a degree. 57 thou over 6" is just over half a degree. Repeatability of such small measurements will be an issue. Eyeballing the position of long rods in the isolastic mounting holes to get the offset in the vertical plane will be easy. Measuring them accurately in the horizontal direction will be much more difficult.

Checking the squareness of the isolastic mounts and seeing if the swing arm is bent are good ideas. Replacing the bushings in the swing arm might not hurt either.

The broken spoke that holds the end caps on the swing arm pivot seems like a red herring. The pivot ends of the swing arm would have to move apart to break the bolt. That is not likely if the rear axle is in place. It does sound like it is worthwhile checking to see if the swing arm moves side to side.

I have seen 3/16" for the amount of offset of the engine/cradle from the frame centerline vs the 1/4" quoted.

It seems that the long set up of the isolastic headsteady can be avoided with a heim joint type headsteady.

Locking up the rear isolastic to see where the front mount wants to be is probably good advice. I think I have seen it in the archives here. Checking to see if the down tubes are pushed off to one side by, perhaps, dropping the bike on its side, is never mentioned, but seems like a crucial bit of getting the frame straight...

What say you ?

Any ideas on making the frame measurements with relatively common tools ?

Greg
 
Yea , definately doesnt want to be sqewed .

little ( and not so little ) Model aeroplanes want to be rather straight .Theres silly little inclinometer devices ( about 25 buck )
that you sit on the wings , side to side , to see if theyre the same . Digital read out type thingos.WHOWEVER , sighting along the thing , and sitting it on a billiard table , sheet of glass , or suchlike, and seeing if spacers/ packers go in Ea side
a identical distance , though Fred Flinstoneish , gets the correct level of acurracy , without a number in sight .

The rods , assumeing theyre not a firm press fit , in the Iso Mt. Holes , Can be set firmly fore and aft , if you cut some little hardwood wedges.Getting really carried away , youd get some bits of ' the same ' say 3/16th in thick.
Sit the rods on them in the holes ( 3/16 being half the diffearance in diameters ? ? ) and wack the wedges in aft or fwd
to secure the rods longitudeuinally.
If the rods are a good three ft , a 1/16 differance side to side at the ends , with the rods centered , is about a Gnats Dick
or fraction of a degree .
With good light , and a pair of glasses , you should be able to read a half of a 32nd of an inch ( 1/4 mm ) on a steel rule .
( as in if mm, that looks like a half , or a third , or a quater . )
Idea is to have a few shets of paper & pencil , and RECORD the approximate differances .

Being phycopathic , youd cut a piece of timber , say 1/2 x 3/4 in , to fit between the rods .
If its just firm on both , Theyre THE SAME . Getting a Feeler Guage in the gap , if ones loose ,
will tell you to a Thou or so , The Differance .

A block of wood , a spacer , and a piece of engineers chalk , will let you get a cetreline down the spine , or the side of the spine .A few bits or ' the same ' ( offcuts from the same bit of whatever ) taped across here or there in the cradle , and
we're getting really tecnical. :P . Centrelines marked on these , and the loop of string and eyeball , you see if its in line .

If its NOT , pulling / tweaking the string across a way , so the loop sights flat with the spine & Rear triangulated mount area
So it all sights in a PLANE , and you can measure string to marked centrelines .

8) NOW .If weve a fair idea the Spines Straight ( from throwing a sighted straight pice of straight edge down it )
a few blocks ( or the same , say 2x2 or whatever )( bit of tape to the square , alloy offcuts'd be easiest/accurateist )
ON the rear mount pin . WITH the Square and the datum ( chalk line on spine ) pretty much parrallel , swapping it L&R
youre checking the rear pins true / perpendicular / square to the fore & aft AXIS .

So , we can get all intense about the front Iso Pin Location . Haveing first established the rear area / spine is about
where it should be .

The string line ( tensioned ) and Big Square ( about 18 in x 24 in ) are the prerequisettes .

Dont leave the rear top shock mounts out of the Equation . A check for parrallel to the rear Iso Pin , would be one of the early checks .We go for the general ballpark first , Most Easilly sighted bit .And then move in to hone and refine things
( Called a Hydraulic bottle jack ( and soft pads/packers ) ) .

Steering head !

Two bits of Alloy , One Ea. side, to floor level .A cross bit taped low . A piece of string ( again ) centred & running to a chalked centreline on the front of the head . SIGHTING . The Edges of the strig are parrallel . If theres a angle / cross
the old ' How wides a piece of string ' , multiplyed , gets you the figure . Near As .

Its Coustomary , if Jacking things about , to straighten , to go as far past . Give it a good whack with a piece of pine
( Its soft , so if landed flat along , or a on a pad along ) Itll drop it in ' There ' , then maybe a slight whack back to centre.

Not really the kind of thing you can hurry . Like a potter & a piece of clay ???? . say a weekend dithering sighting , off & on
then the next ( to allow time for the brain to digest the facts rather than delusions ) to quitely go about dialing it in .

IF theres been misslocation .The object is to establish ( as a seperate issue ) HOW and in what order ( the Impact ).
Going by the brute force at the impact locaton , BUT realigning in stages the Last affected first , it allows it to DROP
BACK IN PLACE.
Six eyes , four pair of hands , and a few spare boots , and youll be fine . :D

( For panelwork , ive Two screw jacks .The Same and use a few bottle jacks .And lots of timber offcuts and packers .
Quitely working around it you might go over it ten times , or twenty if it blown the paint ( stretched ) PATIANCE .
and a good few walks away and coffes sitting there communicateing with it :lol: )

The ideas not to force anything , unless its all set up to let it plop back in place, has to go past & come back , eventually
to find its sit , neutralish , in the required position . The Frame Cradles a sight less bother .

Establish the spines straight. Then the Rear triangulated area , THEN , if the cradle tubes down and below have no ' whoops '
in them , or at least if theyre symetrical , it is as likely ' AS BUILT ' .

If the Forks havnt been snotted , its likely the steering head hasnt , and the rests fine . Unless its slid into a kerb or boulder hard enough to write of a header, and run over symutaeneously .
Why , Ive seen one that tore the steering locks of when the front wheel snapped a 4 x 4 in half and the straps to the
concrete lampost , airbourne , at four foot altitude sideways , or was it nose down & more like 8 foot high . :oops: :oops:
without detrimental effect on the alignment . :shock: Somehow .

Really it takes a instantaeneous stop with a near immoveable object (ten times the mass) to cause substantial missalignement . Forks ' curved ' not ' creased ' and its likely minor .Forks folded under the sucker & the front wheel
snaffued , it may well be ' missaligned ' somewhat. In more places than one . :(

Time to take it patiantly and esstablish the parameters , old days , cost Straightening Vs Replaceing .
Often a bent frame was tossed aside for later , if not totaled .SO the time to check it is when is BARE .
frame alignment check


frame alignment check
 
Fortunately for me all that really matters to get good riding out of Commandos is just force and remove stuff enough it all assembles w/o undue strain, ie: cradle slips in to allow iso bolts to ease through and tranny sprocket lines up with rear hub. If clever and time on hands, and knees, one could nail to plywood marked with reference lines then plumb bob off the iso center lines for fro/aft and also u/d. If ya want a quick spot to warm up on - measure out where the small under spine tube lands and if even straight. Run string over stem spine and loop and tire center, if ya can. I've been surprised how undetectable frame mis-alignments are on the road but enough to spring apart for a fight to assemble once freed. Ugh buy yea!
 
FUDGE .

frame alignment check

But , i put my indicator On .
frame alignment check


I think the red one , his missus didnt see it , backing into the garage ? . :?
 
Aw jeeze louise Matt, no need to rub face in post traumatic flash backs and close calls. I think my Ms Peel down tubes are tweaked to the RH, discovered fitting side car cage. For sure they have little breast buds, left over from weld repair of crash on hwy bars I assume. But engine slips in out and chain lines up and uncanny smooth able to spank sports bikes in a single leap so good enough for me. You did leave out the torso's in several pieces and heads leaking out helmets implanted in truck grills.
I used sledge hammer and drift to get Trixie's under tube knocked back some after knocking the chest and guts out of a deer then landed engine on my knee,*HARD* which is what I believe did the bending. Fork stanchions got bent but stem seemed fine on spine. If ya want to get picky all cylinders are cut on a .003" slant to the rear IIRC, so head top flat ain't square to the heady steady. Bonig!
 
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