Follower scar oil tests

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Jim's mailbox needs modification - how many oils samples arriving in the post??

Other than testing how about letting the top bloke go and use some oil on a nice ride out.

Good stuff, but I bet this is time comsuming!!

Many thanks for the findings.
 
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If I mount an assault on the salt, I would work for head porting, assuming the rules would still call me "Production". I may be wrong but it appears my stock framed stock engine Combat would run in PC 'Production Classic'. The 2017 record is held by a Honda 750 at a shade over 112 mph. I think I could do that at sea level on pavement. Up at Bonneville, hmmmm. I'm going to try and find out if I'm allowed to have head work done, plus megaphone exhausts, plus an electronic ignition. I might have to get one of my 120 lb grandsons to ride for me.......
A Honda 750 only did 112? Wow, now I'm not so disappointed that a modded Continental GT 500 single only managed 98 and change. I had no idea that the salt surface required so much more power than pavement to reach the same speed. Interesting!!!
 

SteveA

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SteveA: this oil ... https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-807-mo...vanced-four-stroke-motorcycle-engine-oil.aspx
Is it suitable for normal road use, ie changes at 1.5k or 2k miles not just for one day at the races?

Arguably it is more suitable for road use than the use I put it too, see Jim's comment about coping with the temperature!
Broken link removed

I will say it again, cannot easily get Mobil 1 V Twin in the UK or France. If I could I would use it. I have very little interest in buying by the 'quart'. I need 5 litres for a oil change every 2 race meetings plus top ups.

In France the easiest 'V Twin' oil to get is Motul 7100 20w50, odd thing is it only says V Twin in the small print on the back, but to be fair the illustration on the front looks like a V Twin! This is a different oil to the one Jim is testing. Cost of sending some by post from France will be silly, but I will look at it once I have translated 4oz into ml and found a suitable bottle!.
 
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comnoz

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Arguably it is more suitable for road use than the use I put it too, see Jim's comment about coping with the temperature!

I will say it again, cannot easily get Mobil 1 V Twin in the UK or France. If I could I would use it. I have very little interest in buying by the 'quart'. I need 5 litres for a oil change every 2 race meetings plus top ups.

In France the easiest 'V Twin' oil to get is Motul 7100 20w50, odd thing is it only says V Twin in the small print on the back, but to be fair the illustration on the front looks like a V Twin! This is a different oil to the one Jim is testing. Cost of sending some by post from France will be silly, but I will look at it once I have translated 4oz into ml and found a suitable bottle!.
You don't need to send Motul 7100 20w50. It is already on the way. Jim
 
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rvich

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This thread is both interesting and revealing. It is challenging the way I think and shop.

This thread should go into the AccessNorton Hall of Fame. We have one of those right?

Any thoughts regarding Royal Purple HPS vs XPR? The price difference is at a ratio of about 2:3. Should I be sending a quart?
 

comnoz

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All new oil tests have now been moved to the first post of this thread. New tests will be inserted in order of the highest follower pressure at failure.

The new tests with the upgraded tester do not compare very well to the past tests -but are more accurate and repeatable.

I have a lot of tests to run or re-run yet -so the placings may change at any time.

I will bump the thread when I add results to bring the thread back to the top. Jim
 

gortnipper

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Interesting that at a controlled temp., the Vtwin lasts 40-60% longer than the 300v and the XPR, but fails at a lighter pressure.

That Ravenol looks pretty darned good. Is it made for flat tappets?
 

comnoz

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Three more motorcycle oils added. Two from Amzoil and one from Lucas.
 

comnoz

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Interesting that at a controlled temp., the Vtwin lasts 40-60% longer than the 300v and the XPR, but fails at a lighter pressure.

That Ravenol looks pretty darned good. Is it made for flat tappets?
Yes it is.

The time till failure is not as important as the load at failure.
I have tried holding oil at the controlled temp just a little below the failure pressure and maintained it for over an hour. It did not fail until the load was increased to about the same load as it had with a short test.
At that point I stopped watching the time and increased the rate of water flow into the load bucket to shorten the testing time. That is why the time decreased after testing the v-twin oil.
 
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gortnipper

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OK, that makes sense.

With the head work that you did on my FA, with your spring sets, lightened rockers, etc and with the 312a, what do you think a reasonable comparable max load pressure on the followers would be to your test rig?
 

comnoz

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OK, that makes sense.

With the head work that you did on my FA, with your spring sets, lightened rockers, etc and with the 312a, what do you think a reasonable comparable max load pressure on the followers would be to your test rig?
I would not try to compare the spring rate to the tester pressure.

The highest pressure seen by the cam follower is inertia -not spring pressure. Plus the follower pressure on a cam is spread over a wider area so there is no direct comparison.
 
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Jim, with all the work that you are doing, I'm wondering if you have any correlation in mind between the findings in your tests and the actual performance of an oil in the engine. You have mentioned some oils that you have found through experience that do not hold up well in the Norton and others that do.

I guess what I'm trying to determine is what is a "baseline" oil that works fine based on your experience with the engines themselves. And, with that, where does that oil lie on the test scale? If that oil works satisfactorily in the engine, there would be no compelling reason to use "better" (more expensive) oil for the same purpose. IOW, any oil that measured at/above "X" in the test would be suitable. Any thought as to what a suitable value for X based on your testing might be?
 

comnoz

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Jim, with all the work that you are doing, I'm wondering if you have any correlation in mind between the findings in your tests and the actual performance of an oil in the engine. You have mentioned some oils that you have found through experience that do not hold up well in the Norton and others that do.

I guess what I'm trying to determine is what is a "baseline" oil that works fine based on your experience with the engines themselves. And, with that, where does that oil lie on the test scale? If that oil works satisfactorily in the engine, there would be no compelling reason to use "better" (more expensive) oil for the same purpose. IOW, any oil that measured at/above "X" in the test would be suitable. Any thought as to what a suitable value for X based on your testing might be?
In the past my best experiences have been with using Mobil 1 V-twin.

But I also think that an oil with lower friction and greater load carrying capacity would be a good move toward durability under extreme conditions.

One other thing I wanted to mention.
When I changed from the Mobil 1 to Royal Purple I noticed a drop in engine temperature at highway speed. I was never real sure what the reason was but know I think I know....
 
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