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Follower scar oil tests

Discussion in 'Norton Commando Motorcycles (Classic)' started by comnoz, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

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    Oct 4, 2013
    Starting to sound like a plan there Atlas Commando...!
     
  2. Madnorton

    Madnorton

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    Jun 9, 2008
    Jim's mailbox needs modification - how many oils samples arriving in the post??

    Other than testing how about letting the top bloke go and use some oil on a nice ride out.

    Good stuff, but I bet this is time comsuming!!

    Many thanks for the findings.
     
  3. MexicoMike

    MexicoMike

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    Jan 31, 2010
    A Honda 750 only did 112? Wow, now I'm not so disappointed that a modded Continental GT 500 single only managed 98 and change. I had no idea that the salt surface required so much more power than pavement to reach the same speed. Interesting!!!
     
  4. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

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    It’s the surface and altitude that make it challenging I think.
     
  5. manx850

    manx850 VIP MEMBER

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    Aug 15, 2012
    What has any of that got to do with the original thread?.............
     
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  6. SteveA

    SteveA VIP MEMBER

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    Arguably it is more suitable for road use than the use I put it too, see Jim's comment about coping with the temperature!
    Broken link removed

    I will say it again, cannot easily get Mobil 1 V Twin in the UK or France. If I could I would use it. I have very little interest in buying by the 'quart'. I need 5 litres for a oil change every 2 race meetings plus top ups.

    In France the easiest 'V Twin' oil to get is Motul 7100 20w50, odd thing is it only says V Twin in the small print on the back, but to be fair the illustration on the front looks like a V Twin! This is a different oil to the one Jim is testing. Cost of sending some by post from France will be silly, but I will look at it once I have translated 4oz into ml and found a suitable bottle!.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2019
  7. SteveA

    SteveA VIP MEMBER

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    Keep your head down, or someone may tell you the additional conversation is mind expanding ;-)

    But the answer is clearly....not much!
     
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  8. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

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    Dec 10, 2008
    You don't need to send Motul 7100 20w50. It is already on the way. Jim
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2019
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  9. Atlas Commando

    Atlas Commando VIP MEMBER

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    Feb 27, 2018
    Sorry for the misdirection of the thread! I blame senility and ADHD. Back to oil comparisons!!!
     
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  10. MexicoMike

    MexicoMike

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    Jan 31, 2010
    And I thought it was interesting; sorry for finding it so! ;)
     
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  11. rvich

    rvich VIP MEMBER

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    Jul 25, 2009
    This thread is both interesting and revealing. It is challenging the way I think and shop.

    This thread should go into the AccessNorton Hall of Fame. We have one of those right?

    Any thoughts regarding Royal Purple HPS vs XPR? The price difference is at a ratio of about 2:3. Should I be sending a quart?
     
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  12. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

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    Dec 10, 2008
    All new oil tests have now been moved to the first post of this thread. New tests will be inserted in order of the highest follower pressure at failure.

    The new tests with the upgraded tester do not compare very well to the past tests -but are more accurate and repeatable.

    I have a lot of tests to run or re-run yet -so the placings may change at any time.

    I will bump the thread when I add results to bring the thread back to the top. Jim
     
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  13. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

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    XPR added
     
  14. gortnipper

    gortnipper VIP MEMBER

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    Nov 11, 2013
    Interesting that at a controlled temp., the Vtwin lasts 40-60% longer than the 300v and the XPR, but fails at a lighter pressure.

    That Ravenol looks pretty darned good. Is it made for flat tappets?
     
  15. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

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    Dec 10, 2008
    Three more motorcycle oils added. Two from Amzoil and one from Lucas.
     
  16. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

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    Dec 10, 2008
    Yes it is.

    The time till failure is not as important as the load at failure.
    I have tried holding oil at the controlled temp just a little below the failure pressure and maintained it for over an hour. It did not fail until the load was increased to about the same load as it had with a short test.
    At that point I stopped watching the time and increased the rate of water flow into the load bucket to shorten the testing time. That is why the time decreased after testing the v-twin oil.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
  17. gortnipper

    gortnipper VIP MEMBER

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    Nov 11, 2013
    OK, that makes sense.

    With the head work that you did on my FA, with your spring sets, lightened rockers, etc and with the 312a, what do you think a reasonable comparable max load pressure on the followers would be to your test rig?
     
  18. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

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    Dec 10, 2008
    I would not try to compare the spring rate to the tester pressure.

    The highest pressure seen by the cam follower is inertia -not spring pressure. Plus the follower pressure on a cam is spread over a wider area so there is no direct comparison.
     
  19. MexicoMike

    MexicoMike

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Jim, with all the work that you are doing, I'm wondering if you have any correlation in mind between the findings in your tests and the actual performance of an oil in the engine. You have mentioned some oils that you have found through experience that do not hold up well in the Norton and others that do.

    I guess what I'm trying to determine is what is a "baseline" oil that works fine based on your experience with the engines themselves. And, with that, where does that oil lie on the test scale? If that oil works satisfactorily in the engine, there would be no compelling reason to use "better" (more expensive) oil for the same purpose. IOW, any oil that measured at/above "X" in the test would be suitable. Any thought as to what a suitable value for X based on your testing might be?
     
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  20. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

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    Dec 10, 2008
    In the past my best experiences have been with using Mobil 1 V-twin.

    But I also think that an oil with lower friction and greater load carrying capacity would be a good move toward durability under extreme conditions.

    One other thing I wanted to mention.
    When I changed from the Mobil 1 to Royal Purple I noticed a drop in engine temperature at highway speed. I was never real sure what the reason was but know I think I know....
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
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