Follower scar oil tests (2018)

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oldbeezer said:
WHAT! what are you saying? I read somewhere on the internet.........:rolleyes: Glad to hear you've had no problems mixing it. It is difficult to determine if what one has heard or read is someone's idea or fact. This thread definitely falls in the fact column. (Thanks Jim)
But I still think bean oil is best enjoyed riding behind someone who is using it so you can smell it.
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I know you can smell it when using it in a two-stroke motor but, does enough get past the rings/guides in a Norton so that you can smell it?

Ed
 
APRRSV said:
does enough get past the rings/guides in a Norton so that you can smell it
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Good question, I've been to vintage races where most of the field were four strokes (Ducati singles etc) and assumed they were the source. I used to put a table spoon in the lawn mower gas so I could smell it while cutting the grass.
 
Peter R said:
Very interesting indeed, although many of the oils tested here are unknown/unavailable here in Europe.
I always used BelRay EXP 20W50, (not sure if this is a known brandname in the States) and was pleasantly surprised how good the cam lobes and tappets looked when I took the cylinder off after approx 90.000km. I have to add that oil was always changed on a regular basis (4000km) and the filter was replaced with every oil change.
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BelRay is available here. I put some on order.

Along with the Scheiffer 7000
 
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Fast Eddie said:
Hi Jim,

Nice to see R40 performing so well! As a low mileage / high stress kinda user, it’s got me thinking about using it in my 920 motor.

Jim, the MPT oil seems remarkably good, almost unbelievably so in fact. Have you considered the possibility of some kind of amomily? Would a re test be worth considering?

What’s prompted me to ask is that it looks SO good. And to make matters worse, it is not available in Europe anywhere (I checked with MPT) !

Of course, all of the above thoughts are pending awaiting the testing of Redline...!
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The
"Red Line 12604 20W60..." is scheduled for delivery Saturday.
I am hoping the package of arbor races shows up today.
I do plan on more testing of the MPT oil. I will also do oxidation test and viscosity tests before it goes in my new motor.
 
Hi Jim,
is there any Penrite in the mix as yet, Aussie brew but one distributor in California who does mail order it seems.
Happy to fund that if none is on the way yet.
 
I have been using Redline 20-50 plus the Cam Guard additive.....hardly uses any oil now and seems to perform well!
 
ntst8 said:
Hi Jim,
is there any Penrite in the mix as yet, Aussie brew but one distributor in California who does mail order it seems.
Happy to fund that if none is on the way yet.
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I have not been able to find any Penrite available without astronomical shipping.
It looks like it is being introduced in the US but I have yet to actually find any.
Of course if you find some and want to drop ship it to me that would work or give me the link and I will order it.
 
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comnoz said:
Here is the scar from the failure of the MPT 20W60
Only one little seizure mark -and yet with almost 300 lbs on the follower it stopped the 1 horse arbor motor instantly.
View attachment 6519
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That looks like a spot fusion weld, did it release easily Jim?. Pretty impressive oil, not sure if it can be bought in Europe though.
 
cliffa said:
That looks like a spot fusion weld, did it release easily Jim?. Pretty impressive oil, not sure if it can be bought in Europe though.
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Yeah, It really was not welded to the arbor. There was just no longer any separation between the arbor and follower so the friction stopped the motor.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Hi Jim,

Nice to see R40 performing so well! As a low mileage / high stress kinda user, it’s got me thinking about using it in my 920 motor.

Jim, the MPT oil seems remarkably good, almost unbelievably so in fact. Have you considered the possibility of some kind of amomily? Would a re test be worth considering?

What’s prompted me to ask is that it looks SO good. And to make matters worse, it is not available in Europe anywhere (I checked with MPT) !

Of course, all of the above thoughts are pending awaiting the testing of Redline...!
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Eddie,
You were right, it must have been a fluke. I just ran the MPT again.
This time it failed at 313 lbs!!!! :eek:
 
Something very important that is missing in this test is the tendency of some oils to dry up while others cling on to the metal for long periods of time. Especially hard on bike cams & journals that have been parked over winter to restart in spring with no protection. A simple test is to place a drop on polished metal and see how many days weeks or months it takes to dry up. I made some tests long ago with lightweight machine oils and found some that were designed to last and others that went "poof". The lighter oils dry up a lot faster. But there are also different evaporation rates depending on chemical composition. What good is a super low friction oil when its disappeared from the cam/lifters and you grind those dry parts against each other when starting?

Zinc is supposed to do the job. But dry tests don't seem to exist.
 
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worntorn said:
The testing has shown that my faith in VR1 for Vintage use was definitely misplaced.
I'll be switching to an oil that holds up well on these scar tests.

The strange thing with the VR1 usage is that I've used it for quite a few miles now, fairly extreme usage at times (eg Beartooth Pass, two up, hot day, high speeds)have never seen much of anything on the magnetic drain plugs nor had any premature wear issues.
Seeing these tests is believing for me though.

Glen
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I've used Valvoline VR1 with good results and good used oil analysis results, but I've changed my oil at 1200 miles or so, going up to 2000 miles based on my used oil analysis. Recently I've been using Amsoil vtwin, but that didn't do that great in Jim's tests either. It looks like if you want to go up to 3000 mile oil change Internals you need some really expensive oil. I wonder how Mobil One 15w50 car oil (which I used to use) would do? It used to have 1200 ppm zinc, but I thought they might have reduced that. Since it's not made for motorcycles it doesn't have to play nice with wet clutches which is a good thing.
 
worntorn said:
The oil change interval on the 2016 Thruxton 1200 is 16,000 kms or 10,000 miles. At that mileage it still looks decent, but I'm happy to change it and happy to buy 4 quarts of the good stuff.

Wouldn't that be nice if our old Nortons were OK to run oil to that kind of mileage
I doubt that my Commando's oil would still be pumpable at that mileage.
That was the beauty of VR1, it is cheap enough to change often.
I'd probably be better off using Jim's cast off Royal Purple than fresh clean VR1.

Glen
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I went from using Mobil 1 15w50 car oil to VR1 because I was changing it so often.
 
ewgoforth said:
I went from using Mobil 1 15w50 car oil to VR1 because I was changing it so often.
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Yes, The Mobil 1 car oil is not even close to workable in a Norton -stock or otherwise.

The Vr1 is only good for a short time before the heat kills it. And I sure wouldn't use it with a stiff cam and spring set or high compression.

Of course a short time may be enough for a lot of people. My average trip is 3 to 4,000 miles and I don't change it when I'm on the road, so my oil change seldom comes before 4000 miles. Jim
 
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Mr. Rick said:
Are we sure this is 20W-60? If so, may I ask where it came from?
Even the MPT website shows only 10W-40 and 20W-50 in Motorcycle oil: http://mptindustries.com/mpt_products/motorcycle.htm
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20W60 just recently became available from MPT. I think it was released in July.

It doesn't show up on their website yet but it is available from them directly or through Amazon, which is where I just bought a case. Jim
 
I tried doing a re-test on the Gibbs Driven MC oil this evening.

With the new cooling system on my tester it didn't overheat the oil severely and fail early like it had before, but the friction was so high that it made it to ~190 lbs on the follower and then blew the breaker on my motor....but it didn't scar the follower.

Even with cooling I still couldn't keep the oil temp below 260 degrees.

Looks like it would only be good for a water cooled engine with plenty of extra cooling capacity..
 
Thanks Jim, not the answer I was looking for for my race bike , Ill look for a better one.
How is the Torco MPZ looking?
Regards Mike
 
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