Fastest Isle of Man Commando?

Hi guys thanks for the pics and tech info
John m pics if available would be good, or where in NZ will your bike be appearing next, if I am back in the country can check it out?
Regards Mike

Race bike fairings are an interesting subject, Mick Grant wrote that he always thought the bluff fronted Kawasaki fairing looked slower than the shark nosed Suzuki sheds, & prevailed upon his team to try one on his factory KR 750, with the result that they lost top-end speed [fewer revs in top on same gearing] on a back to back trial, so looks can be deceiving - &/or aero-dynamics is both highly variable & counter-intuitive.

We just need easy access to a dyno in a wind tunnel, anyone on here have that????? Now ther's a thought.!
Regards Mike

Hi Mike,

Should be able to dig out some pictures this weekend.

Im actually not in NZ these days either. Working in Central Asia to save some money for retirement. So the bike has been parked up for the last year. It may get run at the Cemetary circuit this year if my mates decide to go. I will be home for Christmas but dont know if there will be enough time to get it ready. Having said that we would probably not run the big faring at a street circuit like Wanganui anyway.

There is a couple of clips of it on you tube but not with the faring. I should be able to find them as well.

It is hard to tell from photos but I might be concerned about the location of those bellmouths on the BMW. How does it look when the rider is on the bike? They look very good but Im guessing that could be a very badly disturbed area for air supply.

John

94 rice burner finally appreciated low frontal aspect , as per P Williams . That was quick . :shock:

Well, M.S.,
that F750 J.P.S. Norton went ~ 160mph on ~ 80hp;
1977 F 750 Kawasaki went ~190 mph on ~ 125hp;
2012 Superbikes go 200mph but claim ~200hp, Daytona like-wise..

If youre stuck inside this friday evening ? beats the movies these days . Hands Down .
Knorton . I.o.M.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYnSyBzL ... r_embedded

E = MC squared ! :shock: and drag increases with the square of speed . so to go two hundred from one sixty , we need TWICE the power .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME3m1Rz2RzE&feature=player_detailpage#t=16s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME3m1Rz2RzE

Why these young people these days , things arnt what they used to be. Why I remember when . . .

ARGH . Those were the days . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kypLpmrb9CU

Try putting that stuff in youre fuel tank . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7WREDCicMo

Nouvolari assists refuelers , with large spanner .


Of course , things just wernt the same , by then .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqF-2ENKVhQ

It is preferable to be on top of your car , rather than V c V .
Lime Dust made Goggles a prerequiette .

Something a little more modern , Isle on Man .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhvI-dBu ... re=related

Those were the days . :shock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKZ6gzAO ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paaY1SGO ... re=related

So , a Commando's half way between Here , & a Space Ship . In more ways than One .

Tecnique

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urTAIo41 ... re=related

Theyre all in a RUSH , these days .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk2irKVQ ... re=related

Maybe.Maybe , maybe .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXV3sEH7 ... re=related

57 TT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlBrzMXE ... re=related

67 , I do believe .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUqgsykS ... re=related

Like old wine . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx4Vi0T5 ... re=related

johnm said:

You are certainly correct about the big farings being a P in A to move around in the pits.

On the photo of the JPN faring BMW is that the carb bellmouth sticking out from behind the faring?

Airflow over the carbs is something I would think hard about.

In fact the whole issue about carbs, airfilters, dyno results with carbs versus airflow at speed is all something I know basically nothing about and its all guess work and rather unsatisfactory. My bike has two big open bell mouths but knowing at least two bikes that suffered very serious damage due to large stones going in I really should do something about it. I won't of course and one day the inevitable will happen!!!

Click to expand...

Fly mesh is readily available, and I would not consider going out on the moden race tracks with their “kitty litter/ gravel traps” :!: without them.
Yes, I have been in them :!:

Actually the thing I keep breaking going into the gravel are primary drive belts. Two broken and one with big holes in it.

But your absolutly right about the bell mouths. Im sure I will get to it one day too late )

hi john m would appreciate the pics , if to big a file for here try me email address neptechvtu@yahoo.com.au.
I am in Thailand at present , home to carry on Bike#2 end of July.
Where are you?
Regards Mike

Hi Mike

Ok lets see if I can upload these pictures.

The first one is as the faring arrived offered up to the bike looking for the right way to attached it.



The second is with he rider so we could see how it was going to fit hs style.



The third is the final version with the faring trimmed around the bars and the bottom so it would not scrap and so he had clearance to move forward over the bike and get on his knee.




This last photo is of the front grid of a NZ 500 cc race about four years ago. The riders left to right are Ginger Molloy, Paul Dobbs, Dave Cole and Sam Smith. I put it up because I think the #88 bike has the best faring for classic racing I have seen. This bike is a Lodge developed ES2 and probably the best 500 in Australasia.




Finally this is a link to a You tube video of my bike racing a Teretonga in the Bert Munro a couple of years ago. Tony McQueen is riding it and #212 is Chris Swallow on a friends Velo. Chris also rode my bike the following year in the same race but I never did manage to get Bill Swallow to ride on it when he visited NZ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyekqMox4tw

Lastly Mike. I work in western Kazakhstan these days. I might be home for Christmas holidays but have another 18 months here yet. I think Thailand would be a lot more straight forward !

John

Thanks John for the pics, one of my mates rides in that class as well, Kob Hair, not sure if he was in that line up though has a 500 and 350 Triumph
Will save the pics for fairing lines, is that a wideline or slimline frame?
Thailand is pretty straight forward , no issues with work permits etc, work offshore though so next port call is 2nd July, back out to work then home 3rd or 4th week of July. Trade Me gets a thrashing while I am at work and have inet access. Just bought some Whitworth spanners.
Hopefully Bike #2 mods start as soon as I get home.
REgards Mike

Feb 2006 Classic Bike has a J.P.S. Racing Norton article thats a bit thin on data, but does mention that those fags paid for a `73 development budget of 20,000 quid & 30,000 for `74.
Peter Williams writes about testing in the wind tunnel, P 30;
" It was cold in the wind tunnel in the winter development & when we got the screen height just right the measured drag came tumbling down & it was like laying a cold wet blanket over my back. I still remember the drag area was 0.222 square meters."
Moto Guzzi G.P. racers of the `50s were his inspiration, [but not as far as a V8, obviously].

"We tried as far as possible to follow their principles in terms of light weight & low aerodynamic drag."

Its a slim line frame.

Probably a couple of years at least before the bike will be raced again. Actually it does need a new frame. That one has cracked and broken about 5 times at least.

Im office based. Not on a rig. Gave that up in 1982 . Its a challenging environment here for lots of reasons.

Hi Johnm thanks for that, looking at the possibility of using a slim line frame for the C'do engine and g/box.
Regards Mike

To Go with the Flow?

johnm said:

This last photo is of the front grid of a NZ 500 cc race about four years ago. The riders left to right are Ginger Molloy, Paul Dobbs, Dave Cole and Sam Smith. I put it up because I think the #88 bike has the best faring for classic racing I have seen. This bike is a Lodge developed ES2 and probably the best 500 in Australasia.

Click to expand...

Hey John,

Great linup there. Peter Lodge uses a Steve Maney (a sort-of Peel Mountain Mile) fairing. Nice piece, with the moulding that covers the rider's handlebars.

That ES2 was over here last year, and my, oh my, was it something. And Peter is such a good dude. We're talking about coming over to Pukekohe in February. Still talk, but he's all for it.

See you soon, maybe!

Peter IS a good dude. Ask him about his blown Triumph drag racing exploits some time.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =1&theater

Hope the link works! or just look for Paul Mooney on FB, its his FB profile pic....

In the photo Paul is riding a Seeley Weslake fitted with a fairing he had a batch of made for his own use. It is the JPN design made slightly wider and the bottom section a lot longer to allow it to fit normal sized bikes rather than the monocoques. Clearly good for the Island!

I bought one through a UK fairing supplier who is planning to make a mould for it. I intend to use it on my Rickman as a second fit!, want to get it built with a more standard style first before I fuss with restricted bar widths.

Steve