Ebay crankcases

Where do I stand with purchasing a set of crankcases off ebay that have a clear serial number stamped on?
How does the DVLA look at this if you put the engine in your bike and you still own the original engine?
Would be a bad place to be if you had a built up engine and couldn't use it...
Any help here on this issue?

Just let the DVLA know and they will update the logbook with the new number.

Yes but how do you know the cases you purchase aren't on the Wanted List?

You don't unless you check with local plod before buying. I didn't on my last set as NOC confirmed they first went to US so no records in the UK needed checking. You get free quick checks if you are member of NOC ie date of manufacture and if it was a UK or US despatched number, that tells you for the frame if Nova is needed.

Interesting stuff. In the US titles do not have the engine number at all so checking on the match between engine # and frame # never happens. I bought a frame with a title which later failed to transfer to North Carolina because Pennsylvania had added "MC" in front of the 6 digit frame # to keep from mixing motorcycles up with small trailers. North Carolina shredded my Pennsylvania signed title before informing me that they would not be issuing a title. I also have a set of 850 cases with a title. My worry is that somewhere out there there could be a person with the frame to that engine. Of course the title with the frame would override any title I might try to get with that same vin #.

In another frame and title saga, I had to take a frame in to the NCDMV inspector to see if I could do the whole "buy a bond" process to get my North Carolina title. The inspector expected to see an entire motorcycle and was shocked and surprised to see only a bare frame. The day before I had stripped the entire commando down to the frame. I asked the lady, "If you needed to confiscate the motorcycle would you allow me time to get all my parts off of it which were purchased separately?" She said no, that she would confiscate the entire motorcycle. I said, "Well, I bought the frame by itself on the receipt I have here so if it needs to be confiscated then you only get the frame." It wasn't stolen but she still would not allow the bond process. Probably because she was angry about me bringing only the frame.

motorson said:

Interesting stuff. In the US titles do not have the engine number at all ...

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That might be the case in your state, but not in all states. Here in California the titles have both a VIN number and and engine number. Sometimes they match, and some times they don't. Prior to the standardization of VINs in 1981, vehicles were sometimes titled by the VIN, and sometimes by either the frame or engine serial number. It seems to have depended on what numbers the inspector at the DMV thought were appropriate. I have two California titled 1975 Commandos. One is titled by the number on the VIN tag, and the other by the frame serial number. It can be even more confusing in earlier years, before the VIN tag was required to be mounted in a specific location. I'm pretty sure that in some early cases the DMV inspectors couldn't locate the VIN plate, so used a convenient serial number instead.

Ken

Back in the day in NYS we knew which DMV location to go to. Some were, and remain, hell holes of useless suits and drones at the windows. But there was one where you could register a Sherman tank as a VW beetle and you paid your fee got your papers and plate and left happy.
I don't want to have a set of dodgy cases and lose the entire bike which I can see happening.

Not quite sure how you can: 'lose the entire bike' by simply trying to change the engine number ?
Assuming the bike is already registered in your name, I doubt a set of dodgy cases will mean surrendering the lot..
As Kommando suggested, best pre-empt any problems by presenting the number to plod and/or DVLA, and keep full details of the purchase if you're desperate to get hold of them..

I can't speak to the process you have to go through with your DVLA, but as long as you have proof that you made the purchase in good faith the worse case is that you lose the cases and the money you shelled out for them, which beats you being a defendant in court

Before I purchased any serialized motorcycle or part I called my local police department, having previously given them a heads-up, and they would run the VIN through the US national stolen vehicle database. I would ask the seller to send me a picture of the VIN.

In the US it's nice to have a numbers matching vehicle, but the engine number can be used. I was told that Harleys and Japanese usually have different numbers for engine and frame, for Harleys the frame, engine and transmission numbers are or were different. I worked at a Honda dealership in the early 70s and can confirm different engine and frame numbers, not sure if or when this may have changed,

The NOC may be able to help, but do ask the seller for as much of the history as he/she can tell you. Used your gut to tell you if the seller is being straight with you.

Best.

lcrken said:

That might be the case in your state, but not in all states. Here in California the titles have both a VIN number and and engine number. Sometimes they match, and some times they don't. Prior to the standardization of VINs in 1981, vehicles were sometimes titled by the VIN, and sometimes by either the frame or engine serial number. It seems to have depended on what numbers the inspector at the DMV thought were appropriate. I have two California titled 1975 Commandos. One is titled by the number on the VIN tag, and the other by the frame serial number. It can be even more confusing in earlier years, before the VIN tag was required to be mounted in a specific location. I'm pretty sure that in some early cases the DMV inspectors couldn't locate the VIN plate, so used a convenient serial number instead.

Ken

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It is different in most states.

For instance a previous post about NC is radically different in VA. You take nothing to the DMV to be inspected and in fact the nice thing about COVID is that titling can be done by mail now. They have prisons for those who lie on the forms - silly for an "inspector" who knows nothing it inspect!

I was buying an 850 from MI and when I got the title image, it had the frame number, not the certification label number (which matched the engine and gearbox). I refused to complete the deal with an incorrect (in my mind) title. I provided a letter I wrote to explain the issue and how it was normally done at the time. They had a State Policeman come inspect and sign a form. He certified it and the MI DMV re-issued the title - all free since they considered it their mistake. In VA - no can do!

In VA the VIN is usually the engine number. Good thing since the certification label is changeable and there was no frame number on most 750s. It's whatever number the dealer assigned when they got the original title. The problem comes if you change the engine. By law, it must be re-titled as reconstructed if any part with the VIN is replaced but I doubt that anyone does that for old bikes or even cars (can you imagine getting your car's fender replaced and having to get a new, hard to transfer, title?

For an antique motorcycle (35+ years) here in Kansas the process is simple. The Highway Patrol will want a frame number VIN, they don't care at all about the engine number or transmission number. If the VIN comes back clean you can get an antique title issued and the yearly tag fee is $16.

Texas uses only the frame vin, as long as it matches the title not a problem. My Trident has cases from a 69 in a 74 frame and it's titled as a 74. The numbers on the title are the frame numbers

htown16 said:

Texas uses only the frame vin, as long as it matches the title not a problem. My Trident has cases from a 69 in a 74 frame and it's titled as a 74. The numbers on the title are the frame numbers

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Triumph is easy since it has a real frame number that is very difficult to change and 69 and later, it even looks somewhat like a modern VIN (model, date code and serial number all included). How do you title a 750 Commando with no frame number or are you calling the headstock label (certification label) a frame number?

marshg246 said:

How do you title a 750 Commando with no frame number or are you calling the headstock label (certification label) a frame number?

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With the absence of the frame number what other choice is there. Having dealt with the UK authorities in the 80's when working in the car industry in production control, it amazes me that only a decade earlier Norton were able to get away with riveting a flimsy plate onto the frame with no duplicate stamp directly applied to the frame. But we are where we are.

l got a Texas bonded title on one of my Commandos which required the police to inspect the numbers. The stamped plate didn't seem to bother them at all. For years cars used to have riveted on plates and I'm sure they are used to seeing them on classic cars. On one bike I did replace the plate with a repo stamped with the numbers but I kept the old one just in case.