E-start motor

Searched but didn't see this covered.
In 2016, what is the best motor for an e-start MKIII. I have one from Atlantic Green that I have NO complaints about. I'm just wondering if there might be something better now ??
Can one of the original black case motors be rebuilt and modified to be as good as the Atlantic Green unit or will it still be inferior ?
I forgot to add that I'm putting another MKIII together.... not just swapping starters.
Thanks for any input.

It would seem that the cables are the main culprit, there are threads on the forum that have dealt with this topic in the past. the two brush starter can be made to work well. that being said the other weak link is the sprag parts , the hardness of the metal used in making them has been exposed as too soft(I forget the Rockwell figures of those tested), cNw is working on an upgrade for the MkIII starter parts. You might want to check out their website. A couple of posters here have gone 'round & round spending money and replacing original parts, only to have them fail very early on. (they noted that they torques were correct for the backfire etc...) just a thought. Cj

wbmoore said:

Searched but didn't see this covered.
In 2016, what is the best motor for an e-start MKIII. I have one from Atlantic Green that I have NO complaints about. I'm just wondering if there might be something better now ??
Can one of the original black case motors be rebuilt and modified to be as good as the Atlantic Green unit or will it still be inferior ?
I forgot to add that I'm putting another MKIII together.... not just swapping starters.
Thanks for any input.

Click to expand...

The basic prestolite is not as good as the AGTS/nippondenso clone. 3 main (huge IMO) challenges the prestolite has to over come to be "as good" as the ND. The prestolite 4 brush conversion does not come close IMO. I think MANY people agree.
1. The P armature diameter is smaller therefore needs more gauss strength to make equal torque of ND.
2. The P field has 6 turns, the ND has 10 turns and makes more magnetic strength, I might be able to find the data though that was 12 years ago....You might need a P field with 40% more magnetic strength to make the P starter equal the ND.
3 The P has 10 teeth and the ND has 9.... even it the starters WERE equal torque, the gear advantage alone is worth 11% more torque.

Good cables are not part of equal starter issue since better cables helps both starters.
Poor charging system on the MKIII IMO is the #1 problem. Reported bad sprag design/durability is #2.
I have been affected by low battery... yet I have never been affected with a bad sprag. :?:

If you want a black starter.....and I do tell people to paint mine black, If you want a chrome one I can do those also for a few $ more.

wbmoore said:

Searched but didn't see this covered.
In 2016, what is the best motor for an e-start MKIII. I have one from Atlantic Green that I have NO complaints about. I'm just wondering if there might be something better now ??
Can one of the original black case motors be rebuilt and modified to be as good as the Atlantic Green unit or will it still be inferior ?
I forgot to add that I'm putting another MKIII together.... not just swapping starters.
Thanks for any input.

Click to expand...

I have a Atlantic Green starter plus an overkill battery, I painted like Dave said. All the heavy duty cables, no sprag issues. Spins over and starts so fast I cant get my thumb off the button fast enough.

My cables are even heavier than those Dave supplies. I built them from aircraft cable many years ago in an attempt to give the two pole starter all the help I could.

Dave is spot-on stating the MKIII charging system is inadequate. In my case the two pole would do the job with a fully charged battery - barely.

The original charging system just is not up to keeping the battery charged when running at night with a big halogen lamp. In my case, a low battery combined with an early Boyer ignition system conspired to take the sprag out. Dave's starter and a three phase alternator has made it a reliable electric start. I also replaced the useless warning light with one of these:

http://www.sparkbright.co.uk/sparkright ... onitor.php

FWIW

I did a step by step upgrade. First I started with 3 phase and Podtronic's. That help quite a bit. Then I upgraded the cables. I made them out of marine quality 6 gauge wire. Again I got some improvement. Then I installed a PC625 battery, cleaned, lubed and put new brushes (2 pole) in my stock starter. That was the icing on the cake. Out of all the upgrades the battery seemed to make the biggest difference, but of course that was at the end of the list. I believe if you run a AGM battery you should have an upgraded charging system. I did this over the course of a couple/three seasons, when I had some extra money to defray the cost. I am very happy with the results.
Pete

I have Podtronics . A PC625 battery. Bigger cables. DD starter motor. Good Sprague. Still just spins when motor Very cold. Next issue to address in cold Canada.

I have installed the atlantic green starter and it works very well. The other stuff is necessary too.

wbmoore said:

Searched but didn't see this covered.
In 2016, what is the best motor for an e-start MKIII. I have one from Atlantic Green that I have NO complaints about. I'm just wondering if there might be something better now ??
Can one of the original black case motors be rebuilt and modified to be as good as the Atlantic Green unit or will it still be inferior ?
I forgot to add that I'm putting another MKIII together.... not just swapping starters.
Thanks for any input.

Click to expand...

There is the CNW starter motor. Chrome or black 4 brush Prestolite copy -but with a ball bearing instead of a bushing in the drive end.
I wouldn't say it is functionally better than the dyno Dave starter -but it sure is prettier. Jim

I have a cNw e-start installed on my 1974 Norton 850. The starter system looks great and works even better. Breathe on the button and the bike comes to life! Awesome set-up and highly recommended.

Answering your Question.
Yes, The original black case starter motors can be rebuilt to much better than new condition. I have done this to a couple of spare motors that have come my way.
It involves fitting two extra field coils, four brush conversion and changing the original bush bearings for ball bearing/ needle roller items (this more than anything else improves the starters performance no end)
Fitting the original two pole case with four field coils is possible but very fiddly, better to use a harley frame, (the cut out for the cable connection is between poles not sat on top of one in the two pole frame) But not if you want 100% originality.
For more information on this search the Norton owners club web site
I have found that the original prestolite solenoid is prone to failure and have replaced mine with a lucas item
This caused me lose my 100% reliability starting claim for my bike this year, much to my chagrin!
Regards
Peter