Difazio Hub steering Commando
- Thread starter difazio
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hobot said:
Hub centre steering was (probably) first used on a motorcycle around 1921.
http://www.bikeexif.com/1921-ner-a-car
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I remember riding the bike when Norman Hyde had it (with teles, not the Fully Fazioed front end). It was the testbed for his new Norton products at the time. He asked me to ride and comment, and I recommended he did something about chassis and brakes. I didn't really see a demand for his valves and guides, the standard (Genuine) stuff for Commandos was too good.
Different story for Triumphs where everybody and his dog make valves, guides, and gaskets from whatever they find on the scrapheap and recycle from old newspapers, and sell it as spare parts. O.K. the same is done for Nortons by pirates to date, but for Triumphs it was and still is virtually impossible to get anything decent- for Nortons you got the choice.
Now that Norman has stopped doing his Norton stuff and sold the remains to me it can be said- I was right. His gasket sets, valves and guides were the answers to no question and flopped. His fork brace, brake improvement and rearsets sold, the rearsets even though they were only thought through half through with the kickstarter mounted UNDER the gearchange pedal so it had practically no travel left..... but qualitywise they were miles ahead of the opposition who were- and still are- intellectually stuck in the 1970s with linkages that got more free play than travel.
Different story for Triumphs where everybody and his dog make valves, guides, and gaskets from whatever they find on the scrapheap and recycle from old newspapers, and sell it as spare parts. O.K. the same is done for Nortons by pirates to date, but for Triumphs it was and still is virtually impossible to get anything decent- for Nortons you got the choice.
Now that Norman has stopped doing his Norton stuff and sold the remains to me it can be said- I was right. His gasket sets, valves and guides were the answers to no question and flopped. His fork brace, brake improvement and rearsets sold, the rearsets even though they were only thought through half through with the kickstarter mounted UNDER the gearchange pedal so it had practically no travel left..... but qualitywise they were miles ahead of the opposition who were- and still are- intellectually stuck in the 1970s with linkages that got more free play than travel.
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I wish I had! Been pestering Norman about the fork brace tooling for years now. I suspect it got lost- he has another excuse every time. About the only item I would like to re-do. His brake kit is history since the relevant AP caliper went out of production years ago, the footrest kits I was never that keen on due to them not being thought through.
Joe S.
Joe S.
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Is it really that hard to re-engineer the fork braces?
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swooshdave said:
Swooshy , getting correct size stanchions and bush's aint easy :!: so a brace that would fit...well?
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john robert bould said:
You're not attaching to the stanchions. The fork collars are more standardized.
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I had a Hyde brace on a street/race Commando I had . It was a PRish replica but really just had the Norvil seat, tank, rearsets,and pipes on a stock 850 Mk2
From what I remember the Hyde brace was well made and was adjustable for span via eccentric bushes. This was a good idea in theory but in practice you could never be certain that you had got it adjusted right.
When I built the Commando Weslake I used an RGM brace which was also very sturdy but was a 2 piece design that bolted together across the top, over the tyre. There was deliberatley some slop in the bolt holes, so you'd fit the 2 separate pieces and then tightened the center 3 bolts which meant it was perfectly adjusted to your particular bike fork leg spacing.
I would probably choose the RGM brace over the Hyde if I was doing it again.
This is my rememberance from about 20 years ago.
On the Seeley/Weslake I didn't/couldn't bother with a fork brace since there wasn't room under the yokes with the shortened roadholders. I haven't missed having a brace but then I have twin norvil disks on it.
I did crack the Hyde brace at some point since I didn't pay attention to a steering damper bolt hanging down under the bottom yoke and it smacked the brace.
From what I remember the Hyde brace was well made and was adjustable for span via eccentric bushes. This was a good idea in theory but in practice you could never be certain that you had got it adjusted right.
When I built the Commando Weslake I used an RGM brace which was also very sturdy but was a 2 piece design that bolted together across the top, over the tyre. There was deliberatley some slop in the bolt holes, so you'd fit the 2 separate pieces and then tightened the center 3 bolts which meant it was perfectly adjusted to your particular bike fork leg spacing.
I would probably choose the RGM brace over the Hyde if I was doing it again.
This is my rememberance from about 20 years ago.
On the Seeley/Weslake I didn't/couldn't bother with a fork brace since there wasn't room under the yokes with the shortened roadholders. I haven't missed having a brace but then I have twin norvil disks on it.
I did crack the Hyde brace at some point since I didn't pay attention to a steering damper bolt hanging down under the bottom yoke and it smacked the brace.
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Swooshdave,
No, it isn't, but the call for these braces is limited. Andover Norton has no end of new product projects going as is- see our "News" page- and as the tooling should be out there somewhere, I see little sense in re-making it. I have ploughed every Penny back in over the last nearly five years and our spares range has grown enourmously, as has our tooling and spares stock. My two buyers are flat out with what we are currently doing and planning. One needs to know one's limits.
I did sell the fork braces for many years. Whilst there is a lot of academic interest in them- as in this forum- don't let yourself be fooled into believing all these "academics" will buy one when we have it. Then again, I might be surprised, as I was with, say, our tool kit- a great seller, to my amazement-, or then again not, as in a few other cases.
Joe
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Chris T said:
" The Press " are Paranoid about " Changes in Whellbase / Castor / steering axis " with telescopic front suspension . A derevitive of Dowty Oleopnematic
aircraft landing gear ?? In theyre ignorance they atributed most dynamic instability to these dark and mysterious creations .
Obviously the Isolastics in themselves are satisfactory in this respect , witness the capability of the 73 JPN Norton so fitted . The best in the world in F - 750
could not huaratee to beat it in that year . For 74 they had the rules ammended to " 25 sets " of castings , for their " Race Engines " .
WHERE the original objective of the Class was ' Roadster Based ' Raceing Machines , to encourage development or these , and attempt an equal footing for privateers. The regulations were in their usual interpretation / manipulation / politics / investment pressure ( loot invested / Promotors Returns ) riders demands ( Free Race Bikes ! :lol: ) flux and wandered of into the sunset . ( Digressing slightly
)
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john robert bould said:
I know a Belgian husband and wife who at one time had a pair of GTS1000 Yamahas, they were not popular for three reasons, the most important being the very high price set by Yamaha to try and recover some development and manufacturing costs!, price was huge, but perhaps lower in belgium due to taxes and the proximity of the european importer who maybe sold some off cheaper...the second was that the excess weight could have readily use a larger and more torquey motor without over stretching the handling....
The third drawback was seat height, the lady sold hers simply because they got fed up with picking it up again....remember drawback number 2!
Like a lot of things, it was good but not by enough of a margin to attract a lot of buyers...and with other flaws.....it will be the same with fork braces....better, probably if very well set up, which probably few would be, but not a lot of use to classic racers due to rulebooks and most road riders (as opposed to hobot the off road rider!) would not really notice enough of a benefit to make it worthwhile..... :roll:
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