Dating the bikes

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nopdog

nopdog

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Hi Fellas
Hope you can help.
I'm trying to date a few Nortons that I've ended up with from my dead Brother in law.
He was a good mate.

This ones all there just needs tiding up.
Commando 750 ( I thought 73 but may be 71, it has no frame no)
20M3S159485
N900499P

These are in boxes. I've gone through everything lot of stuff some good some bad.
Dominator, only one frame, no number.
Two sets of engine cases.
62954/TA1957
K122

98112/14
99SS 7463

Thanks
Simon
 
Sorry to hear about your brother-in-law, you going to put the bikes back on the road?
 
nopdog said:
Hi Fellas
Hope you can help.
I'm trying to date a few Nortons that I've ended up with from my dead Brother in law.
He was a good mate.

This ones all there just needs tiding up.
Commando 750 ( I thought 73 but may be 71, it has no frame no)
20M3S159485
N900499P

These are in boxes. I've gone through everything lot of stuff some good some bad.
Dominator, only one frame, no number.
Two sets of engine cases.
62954/TA1957
K122

98112/14
99SS 7463

Thanks
Simon
Click to expand...
The K122 belongs to a 1955 Dominator 88, 500cc twin in wideline featherbed frame.
98112 14 is in the 1961 series and a Dominator 99, 600cc
 
Thanks for that.
This ones all there just needs tiding up.
Commando 750 ( I thought 73 but may be 71, it has no frame no)
20M3S150485 (I'm pretty sure that 9 is a 0)
N900499P
Both sets of numbers as they appear on the engine case.
From what I can gather the 20M3S is the combat engine. Is this correct?
I'd also like to know what model it is?
I've asked the family if they can dig up old rego papers etc.

Yes my intention is to first restore the Commando, I'm a little bit anal when it comes to bikes!.
Then to start on the Dominator.
In my bike shed I've got 3 BSA all singles, 1 1982 Ducati and one 2014 961 commando.
Here is a few photo's of the commando.

A workshop manual came wth the commando.
I've ordered for the commando a spare parts manual.
For the dominator I've ordered both workshop and spare parts manual.

Thanks for all your help.
 

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nopdog said:
From what I can gather the 20M3S is the combat engine. Is this correct?
Click to expand...

No.
20M3S indicates it has camshaft points and the 20M3S prefix was dropped at the end of the '15xxxx' series so not used on Combats (2xxxxx).

Looks as if the 15?485 has been struck through and the N900499P added which isn't a Commando serial number.
 
Last edited:
L.A.B. said:
No.
20M3S indicates it has camshaft points and the 20M3S prefix was dropped at the end of the '15xxxx' series so not used on Combats (2xxxxx).

Looks as if the 15?485 has been struck through and the N900499P added which isn't a Commando serial number.
Click to expand...
What would that indicate that the engine no has been struck through? And the Nxxx not being a commando serial no?
 
In the past when there was any doubt about the engine number (for whatever reason) or there was no engine number, the cops would put on a new number which ended in P, for Police.
 
gortnipper said:
Also, for serial numbers
https://www.gregmarsh.com/MC/Norton/CommandoID.aspx

Norvil Motorcycles - Identify Your Bike

www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk
Click to expand...

A '15xxxx' serial number identifies the crankcase as 1971 manufacture but with "no frame number" then the frame might not be.

It seems to be a Roadster but even if there had been a matching frame number then the "model" can't be positively identified from the information on either of the two websites, only that would be '1971'.
 
L.A.B. said:
A '15xxxx' serial number identifies the crankcase as 1971 manufacture but with "no frame number" then the frame might not be.

It seems to be a Roadster but even if there had been a matching frame number then the "model" can't be positively identified from the information on either of the two websites, only that would be '1971'.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was more answering about the crankcase number.

Needs to look at the frame gusset under L z plate fore date stamp?
 
Don't worry about the 20M3S in general, the revised location of that stamp tells you it is around mid 1971.

I would be prepared to be surprised if the frame did not come with that engine (but with no steering head tag ? who knows for sure)
 
Bit hard to explain so here's a few pictures.
Pantah 500 taken out to 680cc
 

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Wow that 680 twin that is super thin! Is it a 5 speed gear box anyway it looks real NICE....how is it on the road?
 
Yes 5 speed box.
On the, road very good at speed. Bit painful on long rides (wrists mainly)
 
Further to the dating of the Commando.
I started it today. Cleaned the carbs changed the oil etc.
I was surprised it started so easy and ran fairly well. Didn't ride it as it's not quiet ready yet.
Must of got well over a litre of oil from the sump.
Found the frame No it's 159485
The engine No is definitely 20M3S159485
So the consensus is it's a 1971 Commando?
Is there any further info we can get from the numbers?
Or can you point me in the wright direction please.
Thanks
Simon
 
nopdog said:
Found the frame No it's 159485
The engine No is definitely 20M3S159485
So the consensus is it's a 1971 Commando?
Click to expand...
It would appear so, although as I mentioned previously, "159" seems to be an unusually late serial number.

nopdog said:
Is there any further info we can get from the numbers?
Or can you point me in the wright direction please.
Click to expand...

Andover Norton only has '15' records up to 151703.
andover-norton.co.uk

Factory Records

andover-norton.co.uk

The VMCC or UK NOC might have factory records for 159485 but as Andover Norton doesn't, then it's doubtful.

The Vintage Motor Cycle Club - Factory Records

www.vmcc.net www.vmcc.net

Factory Records Applications | Norton Owners Club

www.nortonownersclub.org www.nortonownersclub.org
 
nopdog said:
Found the frame No it's 159485
The engine No is definitely 20M3S159485
So the consensus is it's a 1971 Commando?
Click to expand...
By "frame No" are you referring to the red certification on/goes on the headstock? If so, what are the month and year stamped into it? Is there any other info stamped info on it? If on the headstock, are the rivets steel or brass? Do you have a picture?

Very roughly between Jan and Oct 71, Norton made 9000 bikes. Unless yours is a miss-stamp, special no ones heard of, or the generally accepted records are wrong, it's unlike that they built 9000 more in Nov/Dec 71, especially when you consider:

The latest 71 NOC record info I have says:
Actual engine number: 20M3S 151159, NOC Record shows: Build Date: 23 Sep 71; Model: Roadster, Dispatch Date: 30 Sep 71 to Harry Firth, Danforth Street, Toronto

The latest 15xxxx number I have is: 152920 Dec 71

The first 20xxxx number I have is 200623: According to the factory record, this was the 1st built on Dec 9, 1971 and it was a blue roadster. It was sent to Challenge Motors, Barcelona Spain Nov 21, 1972
 
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