Cylinder head refurbishment9

My RH4 is about to be removed and taken for glass bead cleaning.
The plug threads must be repaired while the rockers, valve seats and valves will get looked at. Despite my vault of tools I never thought I would need more to remove the head but what is apparent to me half of the fasteners cannot be torqued with a normal torque wrench. As it seems there must be a practice used to tighten down the head. Hints and tips would be very welcome.
When using the composite gasket from AN has anybody expierience with using a compound to improve sealing quality or is that a bad idea.

With the exception of the rear-facing nut at the cylinder base (which needs a crow's foot type spanner bit), all the head fasteners can be torqued with a standard / simple beam type torque wrench and use of 2 short extensions for the center top bolt.

LOTS of threads on this! LOTS of different experiences and opinions.

IMHO...

Composite HG is good. I fit them scrupulously clean and dry. No sealant.

There are adaptors available / make-able to torque all fasteners ‘properly’. Personally, I find it perfectly ok to use ‘feel’, for the difficult to access ones, it’s quite easy to get quite accurate with a bit of practice with some nuts n bolts in the vice. With my choice of carbs and e start getting a torque wrench in just ain’t possible.

I like the head hardware sold by cNw and JS. The smaller 12 point heads make it really easy to access with proper tools. The top quality materials is also nice. And the reduced shanks allow stretch which helps head gasket sealing and thread life.

Personally I’d put inserts in the head for the 3 studs as they strip often.

The composite HG takes a LOT of very frequent re-torquing in the first 1000 miles or so. I re-torqued as below and was staggered how loose they got especially early on:

1. After first start up and run, without riding.
2. After first ride, or 50 miles
3. After 100 miles
4. After 250 miles
5. After 500 miles
6. After 750 miles
7. After 1000 miles

All that torquing gets boring fast! The last time I used a composite HG I over torqued by 5ft lbs on the initial build and it reduce the subsequent ‘crush‘ tremendously.

YMMV.

I found 7/16" SAE ring end spanner fits nicely on the three underside nuts (2 long sleeve nuts either side at front, beneath exhaust collars, and the single rear underside nut. To get proper torque, I used the motion pro right angle torque adaptor to clamp the 7/16" spanner. Then I could use my standard 3/8" torque wrench at 30 ft-lbs spec. Best to chek torque wrench calibration before these critical studs are done (check youTube videos on how to easily check/adjust most torque wrenchs using a luggage scale).

I've just dome my 850 head first time. Had helicoils placed into three studs in head, and fit 3/8" UNC/UNF double ended studs. Needed to also helicoil the two long sleeve nuts to suit UNF. And fit the ARP 3/8"UNF twelve point nut at rear stud. This guy takes same 7/16" twelve point ring spanner.
Im doing first 100 mile after 1 re-torque following first start up.
So far so good.

The early type front sleeve nuts on my ‘72 need a 1/4 W wrench. Just happen to have the head off right now.

Thanks for the helpful information I am still working on this one, maybe making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Some parts came from Norton Motors DE, seems like they are having problems getting their wares due to the Brexit, well done Boris you know how to spoil somebody's day.
Back to the head I will experiment with the bolting up process and see how it goes.

Woody850 said:

My RH4 is about to be removed and taken for glass bead cleaning.
The plug threads must be repaired while the rockers, valve seats and valves will get looked at. Despite my vault of tools I never thought I would need more to remove the head but what is apparent to me half of the fasteners cannot be torqued with a normal torque wrench. As it seems there must be a practice used to tighten down the head. Hints and tips would be very welcome.
When using the composite gasket from AN has anybody expierience with using a compound to improve sealing quality or is that a bad idea.

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Don't glass bead it, have it Vapor Blasted instead. It doesn't leave any pieces that might get into passages and threads.
John in Texas

I use a composite gasket . That means super clean and torque values don't mean too - too much as you will be re-tightening after a good long first run. And again after the next trip. And re setting the valves each time. Go by feel young Luke. Use the Force.

N0rt0nelectr@ said:

Don't glass bead it, have it Vapor Blasted instead. It doesn't leave any pieces that might get into passages and threads.
John in Texas

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Which fasteners and covers did you have on it when you sent it away.?
Was it as it is in the first picture?

Tornado said:

I found 7/16" SAE ring end spanner fits nicely on the three underside nuts (2 long sleeve nuts either side at front, beneath exhaust collars, and the single rear underside nut. To get proper torque, I used the motion pro right angle torque adaptor to clamp the 7/16" spanner. Then I could use my standard 3/8" torque wrench at 30 ft-lbs spec. Best to chek torque wrench calibration before these critical studs are done (check youTube videos on how to easily check/adjust most torque wrenchs using a luggage scale).

I've just dome my 850 head first time. Had helicoils placed into three studs in head, and fit 3/8" UNC/UNF double ended studs. Needed to also helicoil the two long sleeve nuts to suit UNF. And fit the ARP 3/8"UNF twelve point nut at rear stud. This guy takes same 7/16" twelve point ring spanner.
Im doing first 100 mile after 1 re-torque following first start up.
So far so good.

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Brutally informative Tornado, I had a look at the Motion Pro and ordered one out of the US last night, reasonably priced too, I think that is what is missing in my toolbox. It should arrive when I get my head back.

I ordered a Motion Pro and they aren't cheap by the time they land on my door step here in far off Kernow.
Compare the cost of the tool to the cost of head repair....

Onder said:

I ordered a Motion Pro and they aren't cheap by the time they land on my door step here in far off Kernow.
Compare the cost of the tool to the cost of head repair....

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Well I have an appointment on Tuesday at my head man. Certainly no worry about it being in his hands he did my two Ducati heads and the work was excellent.

Woody850 said:

Well I have an appointment on Tuesday at my head man. Certainly no worry about it being in his hands he did my two Ducati heads and the work was excellent.

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Appointment with head man; Mmmmm, this has a different meaning in some parts of the world. . . . . .

...must admit I raised an eyebrow there!

Onder said:

I ordered a Motion Pro and they aren't cheap by the time they land on my door step here in far off Kernow.
Compare the cost of the tool to the cost of head repair....

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Just visited the Motion Pro web page...and here I was thinking after 40 years of tool collecting I had it covered.
There are some very innovative offerings there..I'm screwed.

Lineslinger said:

Just visited the Motion Pro web page...and here I was thinking after 40 years of tool collecting I had it covered.
There are some very innovative offerings there..I'm screwed.

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It can get a bit overwhelming can't it.

I just re-installed my 880's head and used regular tools, with only the rear lower nut and front two inverted/elongated nuts being torqued using hand-pounds instead of foot-pounds.

It's not rocket science; if the threads are clean and the fasteners are in good shape, you can feel the tension as they pass from "snug" to "tight".

The top center nut of course requiring (2) short socket extensions, all others plain and simple.

I've overhauled/rebuilt/restored/custom built over 20 Norton big twins, and never had a failure related to under or over-torquing the head as mentioned above.

grandpaul said:

I just re-installed my 880's head and used regular tools, with only the rear lower nut and front two inverted/elongated nuts being torqued using hand-pounds instead of foot-pounds.

It's not rocket science; if the threads are clean and the fasteners are in good shape, you can feel the tension as they pass from "snug" to "tight".

The top center nut of course requiring (2) short socket extensions, all others plain and simple.

I've overhauled/rebuilt/restored/custom built over 20 Norton big twins, and never had a failure related to under or over-torquing the head as mentioned above.

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I can well believe you grandpaul and I do not wash the idea away that I could also do it but this is my first Norton and my last bike so I am indulging in the possibilitys. It is also my Intention to keep everybody posted of the progress.

Woody850 said:

I can well believe you grandpaul and I do not wash the idea away that I could also do it but this is my first Norton and my last bike so I am indulging in the possibilitys. It is also my Intention to keep everybody posted of the progress.

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No worries! I see you ordered the crow's foot wrenches, good.

grandpaul said:

No worries! I see you ordered the crow's foot wrenches, good.

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I had a good look and over here they cost a mint and not readily available so I ordered the motion pro in the US. Hopefully that will do the job.
Thanks for asking
John