Crankcase Breather Kit

BritTwit

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
2,446
Country flag
nopdog said:
I did do 180km for a few minutes maybe that contributed to the oil over filling the perfume bottle. But it shouldn't.
I have ridden it for about 10ks this afternoon with no oil in bottle.

Simon

Even at 180kph, if the breather is designed properly there should be no problems.
I'm taking my 961 into the shop tomorrow to have the breather kit installed.
Once I have the bike back it will get a thorough thrashing.
I often ride with my sportbike buddies at or slightly above an indicate 90mph for extended periods.
I'll see how the new breather changes effect the airbox "lubrication."
 

nopdog

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
158
Country flag
Dipstick.
From bottom thread to end 154mm.
From bottom thread to full 105mm.
To low level 130mm.
Is this the new type?
Simon
 

comet

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
135
Country flag
nopdog said:
Dipstick.
From bottom thread to end 154mm.
From bottom thread to full 105mm.
To low level 130mm.
Is this the new type?
Simon

I asked the factory that question earlier this year. The measurements you noted (155/105/130) are what they said was the later (longer) dipstick. My equivalent measurements (2013) are 120/90/115 which I was told are the original measurements. Others had reported measurements of 110/80/105 although when I mentioned this I was told the factory hadn't used one of that length. Maybe the person I spoke to wasn't around at that time....

So overall there's a difference of 25mm for the high/low levels between the longest and shortest dipsticks. I don't know what that translates to in terms of oil volume. The low reading on the shortest dipstick would be the high reading on the latest one.
 

BritTwit

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
2,446
Country flag
I Just got my 961 CR back from the dealer with the breather kit installed.
All the new bits certainly don’t do much to improve the bike’s appearance though.
The factory kit included the wrong size crimp clamps for the oil tank feed line check valve.
Dealer used radiator clamps instead.
Also the sump screen furnished in the kit was damaged so Norton has to send a new one.
I’ll have to bring the bike back to the dealer to fit it up.

Oil cooler inline check valve
Hosted on Fotki

Air-Oil Separator and Oil tank line check valve
Hosted on Fotki

I was also concerned about any possible leaks with all the new connections in the oil lines.
Everything went well without any leaks or problems.
Anyway, I got a chance to push the bike some on the way back from the dealer.
Full power acceleration through the gears to a little over 80mph several times.
The oil drain bottle is completely dry.

I’ll let the bike sit for a few days, then start it up to see if any oil is forced from the crankcase breather into the airbox.

So far, So good.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
240
Country flag
BritTwit

Interesting photo ,

Your bike has just come back from air-box fix,there must be different kits or interpretations of how the separator is installed as mine is completely opposite to yours,
So which one is correct ?



 

contours

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
882
Country flag
Wow - not all that attractive, is it?! :eek:

Okay, I have been reading these posts with interest and will now admit I was (or still am) confused by what folks are calling this thing. Am I correct in assuming the crankcase breather kit is essentially the oil-in-the-airbox fix? :? In my case I don't view this issue as critical. Maybe after another 1000 miles it could get worse, but emptying the bottle after 2 or 3 rides is not a hassle. And I've never seen oil in my airbox.

Peter
 

cehenard

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
123
Country flag
Brit Twit,
Thanks for your post, you've hopefully solved a little problem of mine. I did all of the updates to my 2014 961 SF and they were pretty simple however, the hose from the oil tank to the oil pump that gets the in line check valve spliced into it, has a very slight leak. Not wanting oil spraying on the hot engine, pipes, and misting all over the back of the bike while I ride, this was not acceptable so until fixed, the bike (once again) is sitting and I'm riding others. I put three different crimp clamps on the hose. Ordered a new crimping tool for those type clamps, and still can't stop the leak. I just assumed the nipple fitting inside the hose must have a hairline crack in it so I ordered a new check valve and I'm now waiting again. Thanks for the tip, never thought they'd furnish an in line fitting that was too small to fit tight in the hose. I'll be putting a different type clamp on it.
Thanks, Charlie
 

BritTwit

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
2,446
Country flag
pingu-nz said:
BritTwit

Interesting photo ,

Your bike has just come back from air-box fix,there must be different kits or interpretations of how the separator is installed as mine is completely opposite to yours,
So which one is correct ?

Paul,
It appears that your breather hose to the air-oil separator and the other hose from the separator to the airbox are just a different shape from mine.
Because of this your separator sits further back closer to the airbox than mine does.
This may be a recent revision to the kit.
I made certain the dealer installed the kit as per the instructions and photos in the Norton bulletin.

There were even things in the kit that were not mentioned in the instruction bulletin.
Like the strainer/check valve that had to be inserted in the oil line between the oil tank and the rear inlet to the oil pump.
My Dealer had to contact Kevin to find out how it was supposed to be installed.
Seems the breather kit is updated with improvements from time to time, but the installation bulletin doesn’t always get updated to include those changes.
Also the two crimp clamps furnished for the strainer/check valve were the wrong size 13-15. Should have been 15-18.
The factory is sending the dealer 2 new clamps, and a new sump strainer.
The one in my kit was damaged.

The concern I have with this arrangement of check valves in the oil line is that I will have to cut the crimp clamps every time I do an oil change to remove the check valves and drain all of the old oil.
Then the dealer will have to have correct size crimp clamps to reconnect the valves.
I don’t even have a crimping tool for these clamps.
The proof of the pudding will be once I can get the bike out to a nice road and give it a good flogging and see no oil in the catch bottle.
I did ride it back from the dealer – about 25 miles, and found no oil in the bottle.

The installed changes are like pimples on the face of a super model.
If these changes do the job, then I’ll learn to live with the new aesthetics.
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
552
Country flag
I am very happy that I don't need this...
I just have a plug at the end of the tube from airbox and empty the tube after washing the bike or every two weeks.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
240
Country flag
Raphi said:
I am very happy that I don't need this...
I just have a plug at the end of the tube from airbox and empty the tube after washing the bike or every two weeks.

Raphi

I wish i didn't need this either ,It doesn't seem to of fixed the problem with oil. Aesthetically it looks crap.
I have gone back to the plug in the air-box hose.
Catch bottle has now sprayed oil all over the rear Tyre and brakes twice with no warning.
I don't fancy dropping bike .

cheers
Paul
 

BritTwit

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
2,446
Country flag
pingu-nz said:
Raphi said:
I am very happy that I don't need this...
I just have a plug at the end of the tube from airbox and empty the tube after washing the bike or every two weeks.

....
Catch bottle has now sprayed oil all over the rear Tyre and brakes twice with no warning.

Paul

Paul,

Have you noticed whether the oil is deposited in your bottle immediately after startup?
The one way check valves have a spotty history in use on old Nortons.
Spring and ball type check valves can over time allow oil past.
I'm wondering that even with the check valves in place, oil still migrates south into the sump.
Then on startup, the crank pushes oil from the flooded sump up to the breather and air box.

I am deliberately leaving my 961 un-started for a few days to see if the engine still pushes oil in the airbox when started.

I don't understand why some 961's have this problem and some don't.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
240
Country flag
Paul,

Have you noticed whether the oil is deposited in your bottle immediately after startup?
The one way check valves have a spotty history in use on old Nortons.
Spring and ball type check valves can over time allow oil past.
I'm wondering that even with the check valves in place, oil still migrates south into the sump.
Then on startup, the crank pushes oil from the flooded sump up to the breather and air box.

I am deliberately leaving my 961 un-started for a few days to see if the engine still pushes oil in the airbox when started.

I don't understand why some 961's have this problem and some don't.[/quote]

BritTwit

On both occasions it has happened mid ride after 100-200 km with 3-4 stops during the day, at each stop I have checked the catch bottle for any oil and it has been empty.

The catch bottle fills up and sprays excess oil without any warning.

I have also tested for wet sump with bike sitting for period of time ,and the oil on the dipstick doesn't drop.

Possibly the bike wet sumps at one of the stops on the ride while oil is hot, which then pushes oil to air box ?

Maybe I need to upgrade catch bottle to a 100 ml ?

I have a 300 km ride today , the catch bottle is disconnected and the drain hose is plugged .
lets see how much oil comes out when i get home. :mrgreen:

cheers
Paul
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
240
Country flag
Well
Had a great ride today 265km
Spirited riding 5-6-7k rpm at times
Lots of twists and hills.
3 stops over the morning

Got home
Unplugged air box hose
13 drops of oil :shock:

There is no clear pattern of when its going to puke the oil .
But I wont be using the catch bottle.

cheers
Paul
 

BritTwit

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
2,446
Country flag
pingu-nz said:
On both occasions it has happened mid ride after 100-200 km with 3-4 stops during the day, at each stop I have checked the catch bottle for any oil and it has been empty.

The catch bottle fills up and sprays excess oil without any warning.

I have also tested for wet sump with bike sitting for period of time ,and the oil on the dipstick doesn't drop.

Possibly the bike wet sumps at one of the stops on the ride while oil is hot, which then pushes oil to air box ?

Paul

Very strange indeed.
From what you mentioned about the problem occurring mid ride, it seems that the issue could have something to do with the savaging ability of the oil pump as you are riding.
If the pump can not scavenge the oil in the crankcase efficiently enough the level will buildup in the crankcase and possibly contact the crank and be pushed into the breather.
But if that were the situation I would suspect that it would effect the oil level in the tank as well, and you said the oil level on the dipstick has not changed.
That's a head scratcher.

I intend to take my 961 out for a 100+ mile ride on Monday after letting it sit for 3 days.
1. I'll check the the oil level first
2. Then start it and check the oil bottle
3. Go To the gas station and fuel up, and check the bottle again
4. Ride and stop periodically to check the bottle
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
1,759
Country flag
Now this is a funny line BritTwit!! Lol


I'll see how the new breather changes effect the airbox "lubrication."
 

BritTwit

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
2,446
Country flag
Update on the new breather kit.
This morning I took my 961 out for some road testing to check the new breather kit that was installed last week.

For some reason the bike was hard to start this morning.
It would start, then immediately die. I haven’t seen this behavior since I had the 090 map installed back in 2015.
Anyway, on the third try she started and was idling nicely. I checked the catch bottle, and found a little stain of oil in the very bottom.
The bottle was clear when I rolled the bike out of the garage.
So I imagine the stain in the bottle was due somehow to the rough starting sequence this morning. The bike had been sitting for 4 days.

I rode about a mile to the gas station and filled up.
I checked the bottle and there was no change to the contents.
Rode for over 60 miles on the bike a combination of street/highway/back roads/stop and go riding.
There were quite a few blasts through the gears to the rev-limiter.
I also stopped several times to check the catch bottle, but found no additional oil deposited.

Catch Bottle after ride.
Hard to see in the pic - the tiny stain of oil in the lower lefthand side of the bottle.
Hosted on Fotki

So far the kit seems to be doing its job pretty well.
I’ll keep an eye on this situation for a while just to be sure the problem is really fixed.

Next project is to find a shop to fix my SBN exhaust and install a PC.
Seems like a Norton owner's job is never done. :D
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
240
Country flag
BritTwit

Hope the upgrade works out for you.
Got in contact with Kevin last night ,bike is going back to dealership to try sort whatever the issue is ,
Lets hope it can be fixed :D

cheers
Paul
 

BritTwit

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
2,446
Country flag
pingu-nz said:
BritTwit

Hope the upgrade works out for you.
Got in contact with Kevin last night ,bike is going back to dealership to try sort whatever the issue is ,
Lets hope it can be fixed :D

cheers
Paul

Paul,

The kit should have solved your oil problem.
The fact that it hasn't means something in the kit is not working properly.
It's good that Norton and the dealer are willing to take another look at the problem and find the solution.
I hope my airbox weeping issues are over now, but it will take a few hundred more miles before I'll be completely confident.

Fred
 

nopdog

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
158
Country flag
Wow.
After completing the sensor upgrades which seemed to improve the performance and idle significantly, the following happened.
After 50 kms into a nice mountain ride, stopped and checked bottle. No oil in it and bike idled fine.
On restarting bike was hard to start. (wouldn't idle, reset throttle position sensor)
Rode home 50ks, bike went well.
Stopped, bike idled at 1200 revs. PERFECT and no oil in bottle.
Within five minutes restarted bike, it idled like a pig and oil light came on. Shut it down and watched in disbelief as the bottle filled with oil before my eyes. I would say about 200ml came out. It's hard to gauge as I took bottle off and used rages to catch the oil.
Now here is the kicker. Checked dipstick, no oil, put 1 to 1.5 liters in to have it register half way on dipstick. Restarted bike, idled it for a while then checked dipstick and found I had to take out about one liter of oil to get it back to the mark on the dipstick.
As far as I know bike has had every upgrade available. 2014 model.
I should also mention that on putting the throttle cables back together I had them back to front. Acceleration was by twisting throttle away from you. Bike ran on one cylinder. Took me a while to work it out and I wonder if I've upset the Throttle position sensor.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Simon
 
Top