Coronavirus

The death rate in the US continues to climb. It is beyond ludicrous to even think of abandoning social isolation at this time. Of course, this is exactly what Trump is advocating.

I has always found the photos of Mussolini and Trump to be remarkably similar. If Trump continues to lie about all things involved with this pandemic he may encounter the same fate as Mussolini.

Fast Eddie said:

I would suggest that is evidence that they did indeed do a better job of treating more patients (note both ‘better’ AND ‘more’).

What value testing had however is another matter entirely. Testing alone does nothing, I assume we all agree on that. Targeted testing of key workers is indeed very valuable at preventing spread. Mass random test only gives us information, it’s the value of that information and the actions we implement as a result that matter. Testing when the virus first enters a new region is very valuable in helping to contain it. But once it’s out of the bag, that’s when I struggle to see the value (other than data gathering).

I believe the WHO value testing for data gathering reasons: it helps us to understand the virus. Without testing, we have no idea how many people are infected, the more we test, the greater the sample size, the more reliable the estimation is regarding total number infected.

I get all of that, and that is why I am certainly not arguing against testing... but it’s wrong for a society in the midst of an already embedded epidemic to think testing is gonna save them. It ain’t !

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What is a key part of defeating this pandemic, like SouthKorea did, is testing along with isolating the infected. It must be a two pronged approach.

It would be very interesting to understand the details behind the testing done in China and South Korea.

As I keep saying, the notion that you test somebody once, and they’re ‘clear’ is wrong. It only shows you were clear at the time of testing. And the result therefore only has any value for a very limited time.

I suspect that China and South Korea are testing people constantly. For example, I’ve seen pictures of lines of construction workers queuing to be tested. They’re all kitted up, even with hard hats, so I assume they’re being tested on the way into work. Does this mean they’re test every day? If so, it makes sense, but wow, that requires and exponentially bigger testing capability.

Fast Eddie said:

It would be very interesting to understand the details behind the testing done in China and South Korea.

As I keep saying, the notion that you test somebody once, and they’re ‘clear’ is wrong. It only shows you were clear at the time of testing. And the result therefore only has any value for a very limited time.

I suspect that China and South Korea are testing people constantly. For example, I’ve seen pictures of lines of construction workers queuing to be tested. They’re all kitted up, even with hard hats, so I assume they’re being tested on the way into work. Does this mean they’re test every day? If so, it makes sense, but wow, that requires and exponentially bigger testing capability.

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Whatever South Korea and China do/did it beats the hell out of what the U.S. and U.K. are doing.

Yeah. China disappeared a bunch of doctors and reporters. Welded people shut inside their apartments and massively under reported the number dead or infected (to this day).

South Korea pulled it off because they are a homogenous society that values cleanliness, civility and personal space. Oh and they TOOK IT SERIOUSLY.

NPeteN said:

Yeah. China disappeared a bunch of doctors and reporters. Welded people shut inside their apartments and massively under reported the number dead or infected (to this day).

South Korea pulled it off because they are a homogenous society that values cleanliness, civility and personal space. Oh and they TOOK IT SERIOUSLY.

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Yes, I’ve read similar and fear you are correct about China. I doubt we will ever know the whole truth actually. But the ‘problem’ for the civilised world is we can’t / won’t do what China did. So any success they may have had, may well not be transferable to us.

Fast Eddie said:

Yes, I’ve read similar and fear you are correct about China. I doubt we will ever know the whole truth actually. But the ‘problem’ for the civilised world is we can’t / won’t do what China did. So any success they may have had, may well not be transferable to us.

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I’d like to think the U.S. and U.K. could do at least as good as South Korea. Sure isn’t the case.

WTF is Trump talking about when he talks about opening the country? That power exits solely with governors of each of the fifty states. He thinks the economy will bounce back. The bounce will be like the bounce of a dead cat. Trump truly is a fool!

Dr Fauci just talked about the efficacy of a homemade cloth mask. Why would that be? Could it be that commercial masks are as available as hen’s teeth are?

Trump is killing us. Literally.

A lifelong friend has a daughter teaching in South Korea , she married a local with a young fella and a “bun in the oven” Megan lives in Seoul .... her parents visit regular .... he say it usual to see folks shopping with face masks on , especially for groceries , part of the national thing bout being polite to all , he sees the masks on public transit as well , this during regular times , not when a deadly virus floating around ....

Craig said:

A lifelong friend has a daughter teaching in South Korea , she married a local with a young fella and a “bun in the oven” Megan lives in Seoul .... her parents visit regular .... he say it usual to see folks shopping with face masks on , especially for groceries , part of the national thing bout being polite to all , he sees the masks on public transit as well , this during regular times , not when a deadly virus floating around ....

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Too bad we have so few masks in the US. I’m trying to get one, no luck.

Craig said:

A lifelong friend has a daughter teaching in South Korea , she married a local with a young fella and a “bun in the oven” Megan lives in Seoul .... her parents visit regular .... he say it usual to see folks shopping with face masks on , especially for groceries , part of the national thing bout being polite to all , he sees the masks on public transit as well , this during regular times , not when a deadly virus floating around ....

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Yes that was also my experience visiting Japan ten yrs ago. Very common. Didnt surprise me as also common in Chinatown in Toronto and Vancouver, Richmond BC etc.

We've just last week been advised to wear even homemade cloth masks while. Out shopping. Not so much to protect self but to help reduce chances you might spread to others. Not recommended to use n95 type for common folk as these need to be reserved for healthcare workers.

My wife got this made last week after the announcement re: masks when out for good reason .... Ducati used to include cheap T’s in yearly welcome kits to all owners world wide , mine are in shed getting cut to rags , found enough of one for a mask ... pocket in front holds a blue shop towel folded in a square ...

NPeteN said:

South Korea pulled it off because they are a homogenous society that values cleanliness, civility and personal space. Oh and they TOOK IT SERIOUSLY.

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I read somewhere (don't know if it was fact or speculation) that South Korea was using tracking data from cells phones and credit card use to track person to person contact in an effort to track the spread of the virus. Doubt the people here would stand for it.

oldbeezer said:

I read somewhere (don't know if it was fact or speculation) that South Korea was using tracking data from cells phones and credit card use to track person to person contact in an effort to track the spread of the virus. Doubt the people here would stand for it.

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They already do, they just don't say it outright. Not yet at least.

Some European countries are creating similar temporary tracking apparatus.

I have no faith in the U.S. government to behave responsibly. The Patriot Act was a disaster for individual liberty.

Just saw something about Trump getting FDA to allow pharmacists to do testing at chain drugstores. To be done outside stores. 80,000 drug stores.

One has to be careful saying ‘this country did more testing, and has low death rate, therefore testing is the answer here’.

That’s just like say because C follows A+B then A+B must equal C. Data alone doesn’t provide clarity, proper ‘cause and effect’ understanding does.

The problem is, we don’t seem to have much ‘concrete’ cause and effect understanding yet.

Japan is an interesting example, they have very low rates, yes they also have a ‘mask culture’ and always have, but they currently have very little actual ‘lock down’ measures according to what I’m told. Sweden also have very relaxed lock down rules, the WHO are predicting a disaster there, but it hasn’t happened yet. So who’s right, lock down or no lock down?

Public Health England are currently not advising us to wear masks here. They say that they could even make things worse. A mask can become saturated through breathing, and when it has it is actually more able to harbour and transmit any virus to the wearer. People also touch their faces much more when wearing masks to adjust it etc, which transmits the virus. And people get a false sense of security when wearing masks and tend to drop other sensible precautions. So who’s right, masks or no masks?

Its not easy and I’m glad I’m not the one having to call the shots !

Fast Eddie said:

One has to be careful saying ‘this country did more testing, and has low death rate, therefore testing is the answer here’.

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Many people make the mistake and assume correlation is the same as causation.