Complete rebuild... oil making it's way to primary?

Hi Guys,

I recently did a complete engine/gear box tear down and rebuild. New everything. My bike has always wet sumped but we checked the pump and it was in very good condition. After having my bike sit for about a week or so after the rebuild with only 5 miles on it, I took her out for a 10 mile ride yesterday. Since the rebuild, not a drop of oil had leaked from anywhere. But when I got home, I have little drips which seemed to originate from the infamous felt washer area. I out the bike on the side stand, removed the oil fill level plug on the primary, and a bunch of oil came out. I put ATF in the primary so motoroil is making its way into the primary somehow.

I'm guessing that since the bike sat for a week that it wet sumped the oil into the case and it spat/burped the oil past the crank seal into the primary since that's the only place it could have come from. Admittedly, I didn't check the oil level before I started it and rode off. -Since I only filled the bike a few days ago when we finished the rebuild. (And there was no oil under the bike. )

Does this make sense? Or am I missing something?

Check the 3 bolts that hold the primary inner cover to the case. I have had the lower one fall out, and fill the primary with oil until it comes out the felt washer.

It can also come through the bolts that hold the inner primary cover on the crank case. What I did at hobot's recommendation is replace those bolts with studs and nuts, using red locktite in the crank case and blue on the nuts. You will have to grind down the bottom one I think or it interferes with the chain, but it will be easy to see. Make sure you get the crank case screw holes clean for the locktite. You can get the studs at the auto store, unc on one side and unf on the other, they're only 1" long.

Of course it could be the seal, but you should be able to check that if you let it sump and watch it.

Dave
69S

Its a pretty common finding for a number of us over time. Engine wet sump should not end up in the primary unless escapes bad crank seal or the 3 inner case bolts/studs. Gear box over filled will weep out the sleeve bush ends which has no seat or via the clutch rod, so the practice to thick grease the rod and fit DynoDave rod end seal. I'd check trans oil level and then refill 1' ATF and run to see if trany has finally drained down to its natural level or really have a sealing issue to redo. In my specials I replace the 3 like bolts/tabs with auto parts studs red loctited in as should never have to remove them. On my factory Combat I stayed pure to the good book and got 7000 miles before primary filled with engine oil to find one the factory bolts fallen out, easy fix but ain't rode Trixie since as kick rachet of something just grinds after no sense of any trouble just prior, so lost heart and time to tear back into her again this year. Hope your luck of the draw goes better.

Councur with above posts - probably one or two of the 3 primary screws-to crankcase leaking. I put a dab of Permatex grey Motoseal on them when ever they are removed. Could be the main seal, of course but you should be able to tell when you pull the outer chaincase cover.

bwolfie said:

Check the 3 bolts that hold the primary inner cover to the case. I have had the lower one fall out, and fill the primary with oil until it comes out the felt washer.

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How do they fall out when they are tab washered in place? :?: :idea:

All's I can say is I had Trixies factory bolt with locktie and tab back completely out to flood primary. I never abused Trixie in hi rpm but a few times early on to test rebuild and they held for 7000+ miles before fell out in primary. I'm considered a fool on several Brit Iron lists not using a T-wrench and exceeding listed torque levels so its was not being too timid that Trixies' backed off. Just luck of the draw if yours fell out no fault of your own.

hobot said:

All's I can say is I had Trixies factory bolt with locktie and tab back completely out to flood primary. I never abused Trixie in hi rpm but a few times early on to test rebuild and they held for 7000+ miles before fell out in primary. I'm considered a fool on several Brit Iron lists not using a T-wrench and exceeding listed torque levels so its was not being too timid that Trixies' backed off. Just luck of the draw if yours fell out no fault of your own.

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Your inner primary was properly shimmed and center stud tight?

Your inner primary was properly shimmed and center stud tight?

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My initial reaction to such a statement makes me want to slap your silly ass off your hi horse. I once was a complete dunce and have made damaging mistakes on Peels horrific troubles, but am now seasoned hand no need of a manual or any more advice on anything really still factory '72 Commando plus lots of upgrades - so yes Trixie inner cover shimed in line with drive train with clutch spaced right so everything flat and inline against each other even w/o any torque on fasteners and still that way. Its pure luck of the draw with no abuse in many cases for something to fall out or off. I feel bad for the ones that get put down relfexly as being fumble bumkins, as I once was, most recent example being the current wheel bearing procedure, worked a treat on normal advice on front wheel but for the rear only hobot has offered up solution to get past the hang up. I do admit I screwed up on one of Trixie's engine blow ups by not nipping up the crank nut enough beyond listed torque level so it came off a few miles from home, but corrected my too cautious error and stayed put since. I don't really expect loctite to work in engine temps above what is used to soften it to remove later. So wish you better luck on yours than some us have.

Hob,

You seem to be on a Jihad today regarding the words people are using in posts hat seem insulting to you but, to me at least, seem to be just the normal sort of suggestions/comments from folks trying to help.

Perhaps a few of your favorite toddys would return you to your normally (fairly) mellow self.

Sure wish I was in Arkansas now slurping back some shiny jihad-toddys out of mason jar. :?

I'm in Texas at the moment (Thanksgiving visit) doing exactly that!

Be back in Mexico on Tue.

Torontonian said:

Sure wish I was in Arkansas now slurping back some shiny jihad-toddys out of mason jar. :?

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Mate, for the benifet of an Aussie not conversant with Americanese, could you please explain and maybe put into context.

I know what jihad is, what a toddy is, but what is a mason jar. a jar that freemasons drink out of?. I read this as declaring war on hot toddys contained in a special jar belonging to freemasons. I got something by the wrong end of the stick here obviously. perhaps the hot toddys declare war on the drinker instead. either way leads to a hangover.

A thread on language differences and colloquial slang would be very entertaining and educational, but off topic obviously. .
Is it time for a Pub Corner area here.
Bradley

Hobot wrote: "My initial reaction to such a statement makes me want to slap your silly ass off your hi horse. I once was a complete dunce and have made damaging mistakes on Peels horrific troubles"


Gee whiz Hobot, that was a straight up question, not insinuating you're a dunce... just trying to learn from other's experiences, no time to do it all myself. The tab washer design looks solid to me, if it DOES fail, I'd like to know the circumstances. Your threat of physical violence is unbecoming, and quite unlike you. You off your meds boy?

Hobot quite defensively stated:

but am now seasoned hand no need of a manual or any more advice on anything

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wow, glad to hear you think so highly of yourself nowadays, not needing no manual or "advice" on anything

"My initial reaction to such a statement makes me want to slap your silly ass off your hi horse

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again, wow

he asked a quite normal good question and you go off like THAT?

I suggest you grow up and apologize for your behavior

B.Rad ,Shine is an alcoholic pure quality concoction using "Stills" to mash-vat then distill and put into mason jars for secret privelledged distributions to the best of us in the know. Usually brewed up in the woods of south-cental U.S.of A. Amason jar is nothing more than a pickling or preserve clear glass jar ,unscrew and drink in company passed about around the campfire or party. My first taste was at a Wisconsin Norton rally 25 yrs. back with table gurl dancers in tent pouring rain n' mud. Girlfriend went a tad nutso before barfing on tree. Loved it so much leaving day they gave me a mason jarfull to go ,free on the house. Drank half before Canadian border then felt bad leaving last half in hotel room to avoid trouble at border. A pure and lovely drink. Why people buy Vodka in plastic containers is beyond my comprehension, leaching out all those Biphenols. Glass or nothing.

My thinking is .... highly unlikely bolt worked out in just 10 mile run. Highly unlikely you left it off. Ergo, the burp explains it.

I would drain and refill the primary with ATF, then making sure the sump is dry, crank 'er up and go for another 10 mile run. Then check primary....if no oil....then no bolt missing....then burp is to blame.

Hobot quite defensively stated:

but am now seasoned hand no need of a manual or any more advice on anything


wow, glad to hear you think so highly of yourself nowadays, not needing no manual or "advice" on anything


"My initial reaction to such a statement makes me want to slap your silly ass off your hi horse


again, wow

he asked a quite normal good question and you go off like THAT?

I suggest you grow up and apologize for your behavior

highdesert
Posts: 635
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:35 pm
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Hang on for a few. I want to get some popcorn. I'm going to enjoy this.

Why any upset on simple fact that I no longer need any help or advice on my Combats. Your betcha its given me a bigger head than prior but yoose all did not suffer through what it took to get to this state and a good lot of those that did help in unusual situations are now dead and 'puter crash removed their email evidence so have fun picking on humble hobot. Very few if any were replacing the 3 troublesome bolts with automotive studs or using the rubber bands over head installs until I posted it on other lists over a decade ago.

Anywho iff'n was me [after another self taught short cut lesion] instead of refilling for same messy mystery results, as I did few mo ago on Trixie - thinking was it still an over filled gearbox I wasn't paying attention too-, i'd run the primary open till leak area revealed. Might get lucky and find more than one as I did on pre-Peel, ugh. On that note if Main Shaft /clutch area found, consider slightly bent shafts buggering the bushes so just replacing bushes won't last as expected.

I just replaced my inter primary case as the old one was cut open for air flow for the belt drive, I didn't do it to a good intercase as it had a hole behine the clutch housing after a way ward rear chain, but when I put the new case on I sealed the threads on the 3 bolts so oil can't come into the primary case, as well I never over fill my gear box and put grease on the clutch rod so I have never had any problems with gear box oil coming into the primary after 37 years of ownership.

I decided to go back to a chain drive primary, had a few problems with the belt drive and a bit of clutch wobble but since going back to the chain drive the wobble has gone, so thinking the alloy clutch basket was my problem.

After just a few days it should not have wet sumped, but then each Norton is diffrent.

Ashley