Common Improvements

jaguar · Jul 21, 2015

CNW sure does some cool stuff, but wow are they pricey.

I have had the privilege of meeting Kenny a few times and toured his shop.
His Seeley is killer. Would be epic to park a seeley Norton next to my seeley honda...lol

Mostly the point of my post was to learn about some simple, but meaningful improvements that any "rider" should have done. In that vain I have gotten much help and have much research to do.

jaguar · Jul 21, 2015

100% agree that things need to be done in stages.
Also that everything is a system and it is important to understand how everything works together as a whole.

Having played with sohc cb750s for more then ten years, when I get a new bike I know there is a list of "must dos" to help improve the enjoyment of the bike.

This week I will start to dig in to see what kind of shape the bike really is. Will prep it to run, and hope there are no major issues or red flags.

cyclepsycho · Jul 22, 2015

Lightweight pistons and longer JS Motorsport rods transformed my Norton from a machine that felt a bit too sluggish for me into a modern efficient motorcycle. Now it revs freely and without as much stress on the crank and cases. I went for the entire JSM upgrade with JS radiused cam, lightweight lifters and Beehive springs. It not only feels better and goes faster, it sounds crisper and more exciting. I’ve made other improvements like the one way breather, electronic ignition, Keihin carbs, belt drive and they are all great. But the biggest fundamental overall improvement was the lighter pistons. This is in the guts of the motor where its most important.

DogT · Jul 22, 2015

cyclepsycho said:
Lightweight pistons and longer JS Motorsport rods transformed my Norton from a machine that felt a bit too sluggish for me into a modern efficient motorcycle..... But the biggest fundamental overall improvement was the lighter pistons. This is in the guts of the motor where its most important.

But it's probably the most expensive thing one can do. I'd do it in a heartbeat if I knew it would all work out without a hitch, but I've found that after market stuff always has a price, not only in money. Just sayin'.

It wouldn't be the first thing I would do, maybe the last. It's good to hear it worked out good for you psycho.

Mark · Jul 22, 2015

For me, it was........ Boyer and Mikuni.

Now it's:
. a new battery every couple of years.
. washing my clutch plates once a season.
. rear tire every 4000 miles.

I do clean it pretty regularly but that's about the extent of messing with it anymore,
it's a motorcycle....... I just want to ride it.

These things can easily become a money pit if you allow it.
lightweight pistons? yeah, that probably ain't gonna happen.

jaguar · Jul 23, 2015

I would love to build a crazy motor, and order a Seeley frame, and full race brakes and on and on and on.
I envy people that do those types of builds.

My goal for now is just to ride and use the bike. I do want to keep an eye out for small changes that offer a nice return on investment in terms of enjoyability.

lrutt · Jul 23, 2015

Honestly, I'm completely happy with my bone stock 73 850. Stock clutch, points, Zener, stock brakes, original Amals (but with Premier slides), K70 tires, dry sumpin SOB. I think it really puts things in perspective when riding the totally stock bike and marveling at how well it works, even in this day and age.

Could it be better, sure. But that's not why I like the bike. I like it because it will go down the road at 75 as good or better than any other bike I own, which is absolutely amazing for a 42 year old motorcycle.

But to each their own.

worntorn · Jul 23, 2015

Mine is close to stock as well, a 1975 MK3.
The main upgrade has been the front brake and as others have said, the front brake is the first place to spend money or effort. The rest of the bike seems pretty good as it came, other than minor tweaks such as freeflowing exhaust (essential to change on a MK3) and a skinny head gasket to up the CR and make the squish work.

Glen

Hobot · Jul 23, 2015

Everyone needs 2 Commandos one to keep Norton and the other to spoil over. All factory Commandos are quick as any thing up to about the ton so generally pulling hard enough w/o WOT tire chirping shifts. One has to get a bit crazy to want to exceed factory performance and actually do it much in public for some pay back. I have come to savor a well done factory Commando and may be the hardest restore to achieve.

I like to poke red hot nail thru the Lockheed restrictor valve so my intensions feel more distinctly effective squeeze. Tach drive leaks too often as can the kick shaft bush and rocker covers and their studs and speedo drive can use its rivets beefed up, sealed wheel bearings, oil support underneath, brigther head light plus relay for full volts, another horn or air horn, rear set more comfy to most of us, seats are bricks but so it the Corbins, glue or wire on KS rubber, clutch drool seal from Dynodave, Swing arm spindle collars, anodized carb slides, some sort of electronic igniton, oil pressure guage and LED voltage lamp in head light shell instead of assimulator key on indicator, luggage rack instead of back pack, air pump and tire patch kit, rod link top and front.

worntorn · Jul 23, 2015

Steve reminded me, the clutch is one other change that was low in cost and big in benefit. Install a Venhills stainless inner, Teflon lined clutch cable, change the friction plates to run in oil Barnett, shim the stack height correctly and install the clutch pushrod seal. All easy jobs and the total cost is about $150 . This will make the clutch very light and nice to use.
While you are at it change the other cables to Venhills Featherlight type as well. The cost is low for their off the shelf cables and these are available for all Commando cables.
They do not require lubrication ever and are a considerably lower friction setup than standard lubed galvanized inner with a metal outer.

Glen

boxofparts · Jul 23, 2015

worntorn said:
Steve reminded me, the clutch is one other change that was low in cost and big in benefit. Install a Venhills stainless inner, Teflon lined clutch cable, change the friction plates to run in oil Barnett, shim the stack height correctly and install the clutch pushrod seal. All easy jobs and the total cost is about $150 . This will make the clutch very light and nice to use.

I am fairly new to the norton's clutch but what do you mean by change the friction plates to run in oil barnett? and is there a write up on how to shim the stack height correctly?

Justin

worntorn · Jul 23, 2015

The stock plates don't like oil but some invariably gets on there. The Barnett run in oil plates are happy with most oil or, better, type F ATF, for pre MK3 bikes. If you have a MK3, you might use oil instead of ATF since the MK3 has a hydraulic chain tensioner that may not work properly with ATF.

CNW sells the Barnetts along with new steel plates for $78 for a 750.

Scroll down on this page to see the clutch offerings-
http://coloradonortonworks.com/part-cat ... /#post-182

There is a good discussion of clutch stack height here

clutch-stack-revisted-t22031.html

The article quoted in this thread is from Dyno Dave's Atlantic Green Website and was called "easy pull, no slip, no drag clutch" however the direct link to that page no longer works. No matter, most or all of the article by Dyno Dave is pasted into the accessnorton thread above.

Glen

Nater_Potater · Jul 24, 2015

boxofparts said:
worntorn said:

...change the friction plates to run in oil Barnett...

Click to expand...

I am fairly new to the norton's clutch but what do you mean by change the friction plates to run in oil barnett? and is there a write up on how to shim the stack height correctly?

Justin

'Just finished going through this myself - clutch-slippage-part-enter-your-number-here-t22376.html

Nathan

motoalchemist · Jul 24, 2015

hobot said:
Everyone needs 2 Commandos one to keep Norton and the other to spoil over. All factory Commandos are quick as any thing up to about the ton so generally pulling hard enough w/o WOT tire chirping shifts. One has to get a bit crazy to want to exceed factory performance and actually do it much in public for some pay back. I have come to savor a well done factory Commando and may be the hardest restore to achieve.

I like to poke red hot nail thru the Lockheed restrictor valve so my intensions feel more distinctly effective squeeze. Tach drive leaks too often as can the kick shaft bush and rocker covers and their studs and speedo drive can use its rivets beefed up, sealed wheel bearings, oil support underneath, brigther head light plus relay for full volts, another horn or air horn, rear set more comfy to most of us, seats are bricks but so it the Corbins, glue or wire on KS rubber, clutch drool seal from Dynodave, Swing arm spindle collars, anodized carb slides, some sort of electronic igniton, oil pressure guage and LED voltage lamp in head light shell instead of assimulator key on indicator, luggage rack instead of back pack, air pump and tire patch kit, rod link top and front.

Yes, my thought exactly, two nortons, one to keeps as a basically stock/updated daily driver (my black fastback) and another for spoiling (my red fastback).

o0norton0o · Jul 24, 2015

lrutt said:
Honestly, I'm completely happy with my bone stock 73 850. Stock clutch, points, Zener, stock brakes, original Amals (but with Premier slides), K70 tires, dry sumpin SOB. I think it really puts things in perspective when riding the totally stock bike and marveling at how well it works, even in this day and age.

Could it be better, sure. But that's not why I like the bike. I like it because it will go down the road at 75 as good or better than any other bike I own, which is absolutely amazing for a 42 year old motorcycle.

But to each their own.

Your bike is not bone stock... or you would have stock slides, but you don't...

You also have a factory improved swingarm tube. The early stock cradle's swingarm tube develope a lot of play in them and that made the bike's handling "poor" at best. The keegler modification duplicates the effect that the later stock cradle design had improving the bike's handling. Without this modification, riding early bikes with swingarm tube play is like riding a snake. You wouldn't like it.

Also your bike has a improved breather system. Again, another redesigned improvement from the factory to take care of an earlier design that was marginal at best. Adding a reed breather to my bike stopped every leak without changing a single seal or gasket. Modifying my breather allowed my engine's design to remove it's greatest flaw which your bike has modified from the factory.

points vs IE, I could install a boyer on your bike and you wouldn't know it by riding it, you would just have a more maintenance free ignition. There's nothing about points that adds to the distinctive character of how your bike feels.

The whole notion of "bone stock" is an asthetic. I supose there are purists who think your bike is not bone stock because of the premier slides. The original poster wanted information about modifications, probably because he wants to see where his bike will be lacking in it's ridability if he leaves it stock. He's free to restore it bone stock and have it handle poorly and leak oil, but at least he will be informed about his model's shortcomings.

Things like the extra clutch plate, the clutch rod seal, and the nylon lined clutch cable are awesome. I have all of them too. IMO, they don't compromise my bike's authenticity...

Hobot · Jul 24, 2015

*Bone stock factory* is widely understand (outside of Commandoom) as only using the Good Book Part numbers with minimal mods to those to help them function better longer or correct factory faults that prevents use as intended. Combat oil drain mod for instance or anodized slides or better sealing of tack or kicker shaft. Anything beyond this is just rationalization denial you are not able to keep one pure stock or are unsatisfied with the basic Norton Commando - good as they can be. There are still 100s to 1000s of essentially bone stock Commandos out there as show up at rallys, just pretty rare on this limited scope forum. Limited in scope as only a small percentage of owners bothering to join. Traditionally its common to modify to fit your tastes and alerter from factory to be noticed and different.

lrutt · Jul 24, 2015

o0norton0o said:
lrutt said:

Honestly, I'm completely happy with my bone stock 73 850. Stock clutch, points, Zener, stock brakes, original Amals (but with Premier slides), K70 tires, dry sumpin SOB. I think it really puts things in perspective when riding the totally stock bike and marveling at how well it works, even in this day and age.

Could it be better, sure. But that's not why I like the bike. I like it because it will go down the road at 75 as good or better than any other bike I own, which is absolutely amazing for a 42 year old motorcycle.

But to each their own.

Click to expand...

Your bike is not bone stock... or you would have stock slides, but you don't...

You also have a factory improved swingarm tube. The early stock cradle's swingarm tube develope a lot of play in them and that made the bike's handling "poor" at best. The keegler modification duplicates the effect that the later stock cradle design had improving the bike's handling. Without this modification, riding early bikes with swingarm tube play is like riding a snake. You wouldn't like it.

Also your bike has a improved breather system. Again, another redesigned improvement from the factory to take care of an earlier design that was marginal at best. Adding a reed breather to my bike stopped every leak without changing a single seal or gasket. Modifying my breather allowed my engine's design to remove it's greatest flaw which your bike has modified from the factory.

points vs IE, I could install a boyer on your bike and you wouldn't know it by riding it, you would just have a more maintenance free ignition. There's nothing about points that adds to the distinctive character of how your bike feels.

The whole notion of "bone stock" is an asthetic. I supose there are purists who think your bike is not bone stock because of the premier slides. The original poster wanted information about modifications, probably because he wants to see where his bike will be lacking in it's ridability if he leaves it stock. He's free to restore it bone stock and have it handle poorly and leak oil, but at least he will be informed about his model's shortcomings.

Things like the extra clutch plate, the clutch rod seal, and the nylon lined clutch cable are awesome. I have all of them too. IMO, they don't compromise my bike's authenticity...

I don't care about being a purist. Least of my worrys but I do like the stock look. It's just that the bike works so well I see no need to change. Slides were basically a pre-emptive move so the stock bodies would not wear so bad. I converted the clutch from a fiber type back to stock as I was never able to get the fibers working right. Tried everything but said screw it, put the bronzed plates in, confirmed stack hieght, and all is right wit hthe shifting.

My understanding of a clutch upgrade is that anything is lighter than the stock bronzed plates so that helps with durability. Brake mods....compared to everything but my ducati I think the brakes aren't bad at all. maybe I just have good forearm strength. Points...this is a source of personal pride for me. All my old bikes retain their points and they all run excellent. To me it's a badge of honor to make the original systems work so well. Not to mention the fact that the 2 times a bike has left me stranded was due to electronics. Points have never ever let me down.

So I have my reasons...or reason....which would be: IF IT AINT BROKE, DON'T FIX IT. but that's just me, I'm a stubborn old fart.

pete.v · Jul 24, 2015

What the hell is that? I want one.

ludwig said:
Some improvements are simple and easy , like this little thingy :

It can do many things , but I use it for a load independant blinker relay , and self cancelling after 20 blinks .

jaguar · Jul 24, 2015

o0norton0o,

That's exactly what I am talking about. I am not a purest and do not want to debate the appeal of "period lubricant" or want to be in a crowd that wants to talk about the original hose clamps used on a tube.

My goal is to have something that appears relatively stock, but has the "bugs" worked out.

Tips like the clutch mod, spindle change and iso upgrade are just the types of things I am looking for!

Thanks a bunch

pete.v · Jul 24, 2015

One of the thing I am happiest with is that I gutted electrical system eliminating anything useless to me.

No capacitor or assimulator, no zener or standard regulator. Only wires from stator to pods unit then to battery. Battery to switch and to main grounding point. Feed from switch to the headlamp (where the nest really resides), then back from the switchgear to the horn turnsignals and taillight and brakeswitch.
Added a couple extra grounding point for kicks.
No coils, capacitor, ballast resistor, point or anything of the like. Clean, simply and reliable.

Common Improvements

Similar threads