Commando Oil in frame.

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So I will have the bike completly stripped down this winter. I have been kicking around the idea of using the spine tube as an oil tank. Plenty of un used space there. I have seen mention of this, but have not found any pictures of any completed ones. Has anyone out there done this. I am planning on running an oil cooler along with it. Any suggestions, drawings, pictures would be great. Thanks, Brent
 
Just be very careful where you put the holes. The obvious place might just be at a high-stress point and suddenly, the tube folds up. It's a fairly thin wall for the overall diameter. From a structural point of view, I wouldn't do it.
 
If anyone has access to one of K. Dreer' Norton me think all the answers should be there!
Philippe
 
Here is another link with pictures of Hobot's frame post65474.html?hilit=dreer#p65474 The one for the Dreer undressed is the-kenny-dreer-vr880-undressed-t1314.html?hilit=undressed#p9104

These are pictures of the French bike:

Commando Oil in frame.

Commando Oil in frame.

Commando Oil in frame.

Commando Oil in frame.

Commando Oil in frame.

Commando Oil in frame.

Commando Oil in frame.

Commando Oil in frame.

Commando Oil in frame.

Commando Oil in frame.


Since those pictures were taken, he has added a small (1 liter) tank just over the swing arm to add a bit of oil capacity to his setup. I think that was because there wasn't enough plenum to handle the pressure pulses from the breather. I like the open air look of a Norton with a hidden oil tank, this is why I want to do mine the same way. There is a link to the French site in the Dreer undressed thread. One of the reasons Kenny Dreer is converting his old bikes to a normal oil tank may be due to wet sumping issues which can only get worse because the oil is higher.

Jean
 
I think it is more because how uncomfotable the rear Fournales are!!! :roll:
Philippe
 
Is there really any reason to convert from the oil tank to oil in frame? Although not a perfect frame Commando frame design was innovative for its time. Use of the large tube provides good support for the rest of the frame making the isolastic design more than practical. Relatively thin wall tubing in the large diameter employed provides a high degree of strength. This might possibly be improved by putting the oil in the frame possibly making it more rigid but it seems like a lot of trouble for little gain and maybe more problems than its worth.

You also lose the seat warming properties of the oil tank! Of course, I only really notice this on warm days so its not a real selling point.
 
If you like the "clear thru view" look, you can always turn the oil tank longitudinally and drop it down in the nook:

Commando Oil in frame.
 
Anyone please tell me why this is an upgrade, superior, to the stock oil tank setup?

If oil is in the main frame tube, then would the oil temps be even hotter in there, as the tube is tucked up under the tank with little cooling?

Or is the idea to add extra capacity of oil in the frame tube in addition to the tank to aid cooling for ultra long endurance rides in high heat? Worried about seizures from hot oil?
 
I did that about 1975 and rode the bike for many years. The frame did not hold enough oil so I had to have a tank made to suplement it. No problems with cracking or anything but the way I did it the oil filler was sort of a brace.
My theory was that it would cool the oil running in the frame.
 
FWIW Egli did something similar on his frames but from what I've read using the horizontal tube as an oil tank did not work well. For some info on this check out http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=44736.0 about midway down the first page(and on some other pages too)....a very interesting thread in any case about a home built Egli style frame
 
bluto said:
FWIW Egli did something similar on his frames but from what I've read using the horizontal tube as an oil tank did not work well. For some info on this check out http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=44736.0 about midway down the first page(and on some other pages too)....a very interesting thread in any case about a home built Egli style frame

With properly placed baffles, movement of the oil can be limited. Also, racing will bring out the flaws in a design that normal running will not. Google "oil starvation" and there are over a million results, most on modern engines, so the rule of "doesn't work for a racing bike" can't be used as a reason not to run it on the street. I may be wrong, but racing engines are probably all dry sump to ensure a good supply of oil, but then again, cars have lots of space to put big tanks in.

I'd still do it

Jean
 
I did that to a race bike I built for a customer. We ran oil through the backbone for the cooling and kept the oil tank. I used large hoses & fittings to avoid restriction. No problems. The bike is in Texas at the RPM museum now. It has an Axtell cam and porting by yours truely. 36mm Dell Orto carbs. I fabricated the swingarm out of 4130 retangle. I also made the pipes. Long intake manifolds (frame plate removed). Has a custom made alloy engine cradle. This was back in the mid 80s. Keith at RPM can tell you about it.

Jim S

Commando Oil in frame.
 
Peel's OIF frame is to gain room for other stuff and open up the view thru bike. Removed about 6 lb of stuff under seat -replaced with less than a pound of fittings and oil mass shifted forward. By using the lower frame tubes as feed and return routes - eliminated ugy hoses by a few inches of steel oil tube silver soldered up snug to frame. Only the red handle manual fail safe shut off valve sticks out from frame to reach towards oil manifold. Room to place pre-filter too. Holes made in spots already braced by over lapping gussets and being silver soldered in add back their own support not take away.

Venting w/o a mess on various bike angles is tricky part, plus to get enough volume to cool in time to recycle. I know Peel's OIF surface exposed to wind is greater than tank tucked up under behind plates/cover.
I had hard time to get oil over 130'F, illegal ridding speeds and throttle and took life risking angry wild Squid Spanking WOT Redlining over 45 min 75 miles in mid day mid summer swelter to see max of 195'F with oil tank set up. I may have to insulate spine tube or run less oil if can't hit like 160'f on hot high way runs.
Ran back home at mild 80-90 mph on 55 hwy and saw 125' F again in 90 seconds.

Here's two views of Peel in the raw OIF.
Oil fill near stem Al cap with one way in gold MX gas tank vent to relieve low pressure and prevents crash spills.
Oil drains bottom center of spine via a steel tube elbow that cleaves to the rear gusset then pierces RH down tube above where gusset down curve lands on frame.
Oil descends to triangle gusset level where steel tube with valve exits frame.
This feed tube must miss Z plates and fasteners and manifold hoses. Handle gets in way of both kicker and foot peg when out. Folds forward inside of engine cases. Fail safe anti-sump fix.
Oil leaves engine manifold to go thru filter between rear verticals, 4" under the check valve seen sticking out in triangle gusset level. [That's an Al bar/nut seen between frame tubes as the filter/air station support brace, not oil path tube]
Oil goes through LH frame up into spine via 2" steel tube welded on L stem.
A two way flowing 2nd connection is made to LH feed tube via a sight tube on brass barb fittings. Allows nose low oil flow to engine, unless upside down and then too till a quart or so leaks out somewhere like exhaust maybe.
Set up should allow vertical states and climb outs with plenty of oil head over pump. Only exit of blow by to ambient is via exhaust eductor.

Commando Oil in frame.


Commando Oil in frame.


There are two unsealed areas in Peel '72 frame, worse at the hidden junction of the under tube and mid spine gusset. Patch of Iron Putty is seen as light area there. Other pair of leaks are at tops ends of tubes between the shock mount plates, needed Iron Putty stuffed hard in the top. Hold tongue to valve now with some suction till tongue gets a hicky. Will pressure test before painting.
Check valve is just hung in place in photo, later JB cold Welded in. IS Gas tank had to be mounted 3/4" to rear - just as it fouls the mid tube flair, but just right luck out again for filler size I had found in light Al. Shiny thing at bottom of carpenter square rust piece is a super magnet. It may stay there to pull ferric particles away from oil out let on other side of tube. Oh yeah drains at bottom of each rear bend just above hi center snags. No mess if a tray put under and left alone. I won't miss that part of Commando oil tank.
 
Very Neat indeed one on a kind cut and weld delighter to me. Main gain in Gerry's is gaining room to run hot headers under drip prone Amals. I just love seeing risk taking by others that exceeds my own. Not much gain if any in mass loss which is more what I'm after in OIF> I'm using spaces he's welded for oil volume, to mount various electro gizmo's and tool storage. Sexy pipe runs and good 2-1 X to help it pull out following pulse. Don't get how he's solved venting to ambient and not let oil out.
Heck not sure I have either.
 
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