Commando Board track racer

[Rohan]

You have to hand it to Vincent. They're the ones who actually invented the monoshock layout -

Checkout the Matchless Silver Hawk's rear suspension. 1930-ish

You might need to think about HRD with this stuff too.
Cantilever rear suspension is as old as the hills....

 

[baz]

I don't recall any "shimming on the end of the spindle" ??

Is Alan now inventing new insults against the Commando ?

No I have never seen the spindle shimmed either

 

[jseng1]

When I built the monoshock racer below in the mid/late 1980s (photo by Ken Canaga after he got it and put on new wheels and brakes). I was amazed at how smooth it was, how well it soaked up the bumps and how it lowered my lap times etc. I was running with monoshock Ducs at the time.

A customer who I sent monoshock plans to is constructing a frame.

 

[Rohan]

When I built the monoshock racer below in the mid/late 1980s (photo by Ken Canaga after he got it and put on new wheels and brakes). I was amazed at how smooth it was, how well it soaked up the bumps and how it lowered my lap times etc. I was running with monoshock Ducs at the time.

Due no doubt to the quality of the monoshock damping rates ?
The question is - did any twin shock bikes EVER finish ahead of you ?

There could be a reason why 'twin shock' classes of racing have segregated out the later suspension types,
so like compete with like....

 

[acotrel]

In which countries do like compete with like ? - Certainly NOT Australia. Battle Of The Twins was good until water-cooled Ducatis came along. Apart from that the rest of classic road racing is shit.

 

[BritTwit]

Don't they have a Battle of the Air-Cooled Twins class?
It would seem only right to separate water cooled and air cooled machines, no?

 

[concours]

In which countries do like compete with like ? - Certainly NOT Australia. Battle Of The Twins was good until water-cooled Ducatis came along. Apart from that the rest of classic road racing is shit.

B.O.T.T. race here was kinda fun to watch when the Kawi EX500 ran rings around the airheads & such... 8)
they changed the rules next year :cry:

 

[Jagbruno]

You have to hand it to Vincent. They're the ones who actually invented the monoshock layout - only there weren't any available monoshocks so they paired them up. It was marketed by Suzuki on their motocross bikes many years later (the american who set up the 1st monoshock for Suzuki never got a cent).

Ahem, YAMAHA Monocross was thefirst of the Jap dirt bikes to appear.


1975 YZ250

Talking about innovation... Yamaha created the very first single-shock, production motocross bike ever. This was the beginning of the Yamaha Monocross machines that changed motocross forever. The YZs of this time were near replicas of "Works Bikes" with their aluminum fuel tanks and light weight, lacking only magnesium engine cases and a few titanium pieces.

No - it was Suzuki back in 1971/72 that was the 1st to incorporate the monoshock onto their dirt bikes with the help of Champion rider Rodger DeCoster. The man who deserves the most credit is Lucien Tilkiem - he built the 1st dirt bike monoshock in 1971 and changed the motorcycle world forever - his son Guy was the 1st to race it. Lucien Tilkiem was from Belgium (not America - sorry) and it looks like he negotiated some compensation for it but I remember a story in the very beginning that they tried to snake him out of the deal because Lucien did some work for Suzuki and so whatever he invented belonged to Suzuki and that really pissed him off. Yamaha picked up the slack and was the 1st to market it in 73.

Read the fascinating article at:
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2010/02/a ... monoshock/

"Guy Tilkiens reported favorably on the chassis and all through the 1972 season, work progressed on the new design. Having all the right contacts, Mr Tilkiens was able to get truly expert input and took his bike to the Mol circuit where Suzuki factory riders Roger DeCoster and Sylvain Geboers tested it."

Jim is absolutely correct and I as a teenager saw both these riders compete on these Suzuki bikes on numerous competitions at the time, as well as Joel Robert if memory serves me well...

 

[acotrel]

I have almost given up on road racing and only do a practice session from time to time, because it is much cheaper and just as pointless. I've seen plenty of bikes I would like to race against, however they are never together in the one race class. It is not rocket science to have separate groups for two strokes, twins, singles and four cylinder bikes and run them in capacity classes. For my bike a water-cooled four valve Ducati will always be faster. However I would love to get amongst a field of air-cooled Ducatis and any other air-cooled Japanese, Italian or German twins. I'd find the money to go racing again.
With single cylinder four strokes, there is a problem if the upper capacity limit is more than 500cc. We once had a supermono class which was good except that the cost of running 600cc motors killed the class. You had to have a motor that big to be competitive.

 

[jseng1]

Ahem, YAMAHA Monocross was thefirst of the Jap dirt bikes to appear.


1975 YZ250

Talking about innovation... Yamaha created the very first single-shock, production motocross bike ever. This was the beginning of the Yamaha Monocross machines that changed motocross forever. The YZs of this time were near replicas of "Works Bikes" with their aluminum fuel tanks and light weight, lacking only magnesium engine cases and a few titanium pieces.

No - it was Suzuki back in 1971/72 that was the 1st to incorporate the monoshock onto their dirt bikes with the help of Champion rider Rodger DeCoster. The man who deserves the most credit is Lucien Tilkiem - he built the 1st dirt bike monoshock in 1971 and changed the motorcycle world forever - his son Guy was the 1st to race it. Lucien Tilkiem was from Belgium (not America - sorry) and it looks like he negotiated some compensation for it but I remember a story in the very beginning that they tried to snake him out of the deal because Lucien did some work for Suzuki and so whatever he invented belonged to Suzuki and that really pissed him off. Yamaha picked up the slack and was the 1st to market it in 73.

Read the fascinating article at:
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2010/02/a ... monoshock/

"Guy Tilkiens reported favorably on the chassis and all through the 1972 season, work progressed on the new design. Having all the right contacts, Mr Tilkiens was able to get truly expert input and took his bike to the Mol circuit where Suzuki factory riders Roger DeCoster and Sylvain Geboers tested it."

Jim is absolutely correct and I as a teenager saw both these riders compete on these Suzuki bikes on numerous competitions at the time, as well as Joel Robert if memory serves me well...

Those were great times and great riders. I was a young motocross fanatic at the time. Loved it.

 

[Rohan]

If monoshock was so great, how come Mr deCoster was (winning) on twin shock machines in later years.
And how did Yamahahaha take out so many patents ?
(we diverge a bit ere).

 

[Jagbruno]

Joel Robert, Roger Decoster, Sylvain Geboers were incredible champions able to win on just about anything the manufacturers could throw at them. They would compete every weekend, sometimes in several categories, on improbable local tracks, sand, mud, water, rocks, forest, everything went...that was the golden age of motocross, I was lucky to be a teenager in Belgium at the time, I would go out nearly every weekend on my Zündapp off-roader to see the races, wherever in the country they would be held!

Those were the days...

 

[acotrel]

Perhaps the faster you go, the bigger the bumps get ? How much suspension travel do you really need on a relatively smooth road race circuit ? I once rode a rigid frame 650 Triumph at about 110 MPH across an smooth airstrip. I did not like it at all. Yet some guys still ride them in historic races. Laid down twin shocks are probably quite adequate for most old type race bikes.