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Commando and dommi

Discussion in 'Norton Motorcycles (Modern)' started by Z1000elderado, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. Z1000elderado

    Z1000elderado

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    Is this the end of the line for commandos and dominators? I know they are moving to a new generation of engine now but if someone wanted say a domi naked built can they still get one or are all 961cc engined bikes no longer being built? Except for the Henry Cole one..
    Was there any domi or commandos on display at The NEC?
     
  2. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    What prompts you to say that?

    As far as I know all 961 models are still available, apart from Ltd editions which have sold out of course.

    The end will come one day with the edvent of Euro 5 or 6 or whichever one is eventually ‘a bridge too far’. But until then...
     
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  3. Z1000elderado

    Z1000elderado

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    Just thinking that they will not be promoting them now and they will eventually fritter away with euro 5 looming, this is exciting times for norton there will have to be drastic changes though in that it will have to be a production shop, rather than the sleepy hollow it is just now, I would imagine this is where India will be able to help out now regards machining of parts and sourcing parts to keep the price down.
    The 650 racer looks like it is going to be some machine..
     
  4. BLIGHTYBRIT/SF

    BLIGHTYBRIT/SF VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2016
    There s a chance if there made in small numbers even after 6 that they maybe excluded,another rumour in the making probably,but till then be fine I am sure,they may even pre reg a bunch when they know they won’t pass ,if demand was high when the end is nigh then production of all sparky new modern bikes could take a back seat for the last push,in any case there will at least another 1000 made
     
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  5. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Euro 5 comes into force Jan 2020 I believe. There’s normally a year or so grace that can be had one way or another.

    Of course, the US, Aus, Asia aren’t interested in Euro compliance, so one would assume there’s a global market even beyond that.
     
  6. john clark

    john clark

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2018
    I was at the show yesterday the Norton stand was mobbed at 2.0 they were allowed to start a customers RR V4 with titanium exhaust it brought the whole area to a stand still its unbelievable.When they turned it off there was a massive cheer around the main hall. Suzuki U K had one of my old bikes on display when i went to see them on their stand a staff member said how can we compete with that sound its amazing.
     
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  7. peter12

    peter12

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2013
    i recall reading somewhere that they hope they can get the 961 through Euro 5. Also there were plenty of 961s at the show. Including the California.
     
  8. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    There’s life in the old dog yet then...!
     
  9. Welshrugby

    Welshrugby

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Not sure about that:-

    There is something about an air-cooled engine – a feeling you simply can't get from the liquid-cooled engine in a high-performance bike.” ... Because chances are not even Honda will be able to get air-cooled engines past super-tough Euro 5 restrictions due in 2020 – when that really will put the 'fin' in air-cooling.19 Jul 2017
    Explained: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 - Bennetts Insurance

    https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and.../bikes/air-cooling-vs-euro-4-explained
     
  10. Z1000elderado

    Z1000elderado

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    I suppose if they are still showing them at events they must still be building them then..
     
  11. Britfan60

    Britfan60 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Maybe take a cue from Thaiumph. If they can sneak a water cooler onto a retro looking 1200, maybe Norton can too.
     
  12. BritTwit

    BritTwit

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Certainly they can get the 961 through the next level of emission regs. But this will require, lower CR, larger Cats, change in cam and ignition timing. It will mean a drop in HP and performance. So, Norton will reach a point of no return with the air-cooled 961:

    Can they sell a 961 that meets Euro 6, but has its performance compromised to the extent that it makes perhaps 60-65HP? Possibly, look at the Royal Enfield and their lower HP, they sell, so perhaps this would work for Norton too.

    Is it worth the effort to re-engineer the 961 to meet Euro 4,5,6? Probably not.

    If Norton feel that the 961’s connection to the Norton legacy of the past is important to maintain, then they should go the route of Triumph’s 900/1200 modern classics. Give the job of redesigning the 961 into a liquid cooled machine to Ricardo. Design out of the engine all of the problem areas, but keep the look as close to classic Norton as possible.

    If they don’t want to redesign the 961/Commando for future survivability in the world of future Euro regulations, then retire the whole 961 family, and take the new 650 motor, and create a “Classic” 750 variant with faux cooling fins on the head and cylinders, and engine covers with a vintage shape/style. The insides of the motors will be identical to the sport 650 line using the same parts.

    Viola – the new 750 Commando II !

    If the new Norton Scrambler 650 has 82HP, a 750 variant (stroked) could produce 90HP. That would make for a better performing Commando than the 961 is today. Plus Norton get to continue the Command/Dominator product name into a new generation of vehicles. This will enable them to attract old timers to the new product, and younger riders who value high performance that may be interested in classic styling.
     
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  13. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    I am ok with that , So long as parts for Air cooled 961 remain . Listen folks , when BMW , Honda , HD and Ducati won't do (air cooled) I will give up. I think we are going to see the 961 for a long time . And yes power may drop some , but IF the demand is still there it will be built. The 961 engine is the link to the old Norton bikes. Is England tied to the EURO regs ? If you only sold to the UK and other countries (not Europe). I was told by Norton that I can still buy a Brand New Euro 3 961 here in USA.
     
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  14. Z1000elderado

    Z1000elderado

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    Great thoughtful reply
     
  15. mdt-son

    mdt-son

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Norton needs a different engine to attract the seasoned rider and touring enthusiast. The new 650 engine is of no attraction to me.

    -Knut
     
  16. MxMartin

    MxMartin

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2017
    I think that the 961 will get shelved sooner than later BUT I think our parts supply will continue for a long time due to the possibility that India will be on board producing 961 component parts at some point once they've adopted the building of them for the Asian markets. We could even start to see a flourishing parts and accessory aftermarket for the 961. I hope that the 650 sales provide Norton with the capital needed for growth and to develop a range of engines and chassis styles.
     
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  17. Britfan60

    Britfan60 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    That would work for us 961 owners if the aftermarket/indan parts are manufactured properly. But will they? Like most companies we are jonesing to make aftermarket parts for the 961 but won't because of such a limited production, would it be worth it for a manufacturer to keep making us engine parts? I would love to think so.
     
  18. Madnorton

    Madnorton

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    I'm with MxMartin on this one, the 961 will soon be over, the 650 in its guises has seen to that with the amazing reception it has had, and if the engine is that good in use as it looks on paper, then a tourer will be in the making. Parts for the 961 should not be an issue, third party items will be available and engine parts could surely be made by the training dept. here in the UK. Sadly as some indicated, India and China etc, will only be interested in large MOQ, and the entry level these days seems to be getting higher than the odd few thousand.
     
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  19. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    I have a Dominator Naked and asked Stuart personally on instagram how many Nakeds were made. He said less than 50 and that they are no longer making them.
     

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  20. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Nice !
     
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