Commando 961 vs BMW R nine T

So today my cousin and I went out riding on a nice sunny 38°F day.
I rode my 16 Commando SF, he rode his 17 BMW R nine T.

We found some nice winding back roads with no traffic and wide open spaces.
We are both equal riders and decided to see who could out run the other.

In the turns It’s hard to tell, but on the straights I pulled him every time.
We started with a first gear roll at 5mph to about 1/4 mile and each time I’d pull him and keep the distance ahead of him.

Then we tried some top end pulls, I was behind him and when he took off in front of me, I could slowly pull him in and gain on him but he let off before I could pass him. I pulled to 125 mph and hit my rev limiter in 2nd gear at around 7800 rpm. He said he let off at 120 mph.

The second time, we tried, I got the jump on him and pulled to 115 mph and he said he had a hard time catching me.

When We later looked up Commando 961 and BMW R nine T performance specs, it says the Commando is rated at a 12.85 @ 103.5 1/4 Mile
To the BMW’s 11.30 @ 118.02 1/4 Mile.
Both of these were listed on CycleWorlds website.

I find it hard to believe that over 1.5 second slower for the Commando.
I’ll note that his bike is 100% stock and he out weighs my body weight by about 35 pounds.
My bike is fitted with catless x pipe, short mufflers and a tune and I run 100 octane race gas all the time.
He runs pump 93 octane.

Race gas does nothing other than prevent pinging in high compression race engines.
If your bike doesn't ping with lower octane fuel, then you will actually have a tiny bit more power with the lower octane.
As the Octane level rises the BTU rating of the fuel drops ever so slightly.
So adding Octane beyond what is needed doesn't make extra power.



Glen

worntorn said:

Race gas does nothing other than prevent pinging in high compression race engines.
If your bike doesn't ping with lower octane fuel, then you will actually have a tiny bit more power with the lower octane.
As the Octane level rises the BTU rating of the fuel drops ever so slightly.
So adding Octane beyond what is needed doesn't make extra power.



Glen

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I use the race gas because I buy it by the 55 gallon drum for my track car and it’s a superior fuel compared to cheap quality pump gas.

My car has a knock sensor that continues to add timing until knock is detected. Durning dyno testing i gained 24 rear wheel hp compared to 93 octane pump gas. I know the 961 doesn’t have a knock sensor.

Time to buy a track/race bike. Once you own a track bike, you'll be ready to move it to where it all belongs

Maybe your cousin is not being totally honest about his weight and the gap is more like 35kg ??

I had an R nine T, but it did have the full Acrapovic system, and the cat and ‘flapper valve’ removed.

My 961 has removed cat and open pipes and the factory re map.

I never rode them side by side like you, but I am fairly convinced the R nine was quicker than the 961.

Maybe you’re a better rider than your (fatter than he claims) cousin?

That's a good bit of backyard racing you've done with your cousin and sounds like fun. I have had the chance to drive a R9T Pure 110 hp at the engine . I would say it has more power than the 961 and felt it. But the rear suspension was horrible and jolting. The engine is also not as smooth as I though it would be. I am sure that the 961 in the right hands can do very well . I can say that I was glad to get back on mine after that test ride.

I owned the "Racer S" version and would say that it definitely felt faster and never sounded like the motor was stressed which may have contributed to the faster feeling. Also the build quality is the industry standard, came with a Georgeous Half Fairing, Traction Control, Heated Grips, Built in Security System and Integrated Multi Function Display. It also appeared really frugal on fuel and came with a comprehensive 2 year no quibble warranty (that I never needed to use) and all for less than 12 grand. I sold it after 10 months and bought my 961. Must go now, I have an appointment with my Psychiatrist.

thesixthelephant said:

I owned the "Racer S" version and would say that it definitely felt faster and never sounded like the motor was stressed which may have contributed to the faster feeling. Also the build quality is the industry standard, came with a Georgeous Half Fairing, Traction Control, Heated Grips, Built in Security System and Integrated Multi Function Display. It also appeared really frugal on fuel and came with a comprehensive 2 year no quibble warranty (that I never needed to use) and all for less than 12 grand. I sold it after 10 months and bought my 961. Must go now, I have an appointment with my Psychiatrist.

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Your story is similar to mine. With the exception that I had the Sport model and inbetween buying it and selling it I added an embarrassingly costly array of pretty unnecessary extras and ‘customised features’.

Please forward contact details of your Psychiatrist...

I used my 850 Commando to do the commute in the early 80's through Birmingham rush hour, traffic was heavy for the first 5 miles and despite my performance advantage over the near OAP rider and Honda 150 he always beat me on that first 5 miles as he could get through smaller gaps in the traffic queues. Horses for courses, the Honda was a proper Rat bike even before the term was in use, the shocks were no longer damping but instead of replacing them the replacement springless dampers were bolted alongside.

Fast Eddie said:

Your story is similar to mine. With the exception that I had the Sport model and inbetween buying it and selling it I added an embarrassingly costly array of pretty unnecessary extras and ‘customised features’.

Please forward contact details of your Psychiatrist...

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Don't get me started. I keep crashing my Ultra into my local HD dealer to see what shiny useless bits stick. My ultimate target is a 30 grand loss on a 25 grand bike and I'm currently bang on target. I've had to go to the NHS for the Psychiatry as BUPA would eat in to the "chrome" budget. I'm working on the "Chrome won't get you home" thing on the basis that at least it'll look good broken down at the roadside !!. My Psychiatrist has however, convinced me that apart from the hideous Indicators and Mirrors, that the SF is Visually Perfect thus saving me a fortune.

Wow, you’re an amateur at this aren’t yer?

Mirrors and indicators can be expensive, what about carbon wheels? Thiel Motorsport 2:1 exhausts?

Can that’s just of the top of my head...

“£30k loss on a £25k bike” made me laugh.

Until I thought about it...and about some of my projects... then I decided to think about something else, quickly...

Fast Eddie said:

Maybe your cousin is not being totally honest about his weight and the gap is more like 35kg ??

I had an R nine T, but it did have the full Acrapovic system, and the cat and ‘flapper valve’ removed.

My 961 has removed cat and open pipes and the factory re map.

I never rode them side by side like you, but I am fairly convinced the R nine was quicker than the 961.

Maybe you’re a better rider than your (fatter than he claims) cousin?

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Lmao. Possibly.

The only thing I put on my Sport are Rizoma mirrors for $350. US, SBN exhaust and some paddock stand bobbins. I'm good. If I get two consecutive summers whitout a major problem, I may treat her to some more goodies.

I'm still glad I bought the Norton over the R Nine T. Felt too small, covered in cheap metal shrouds. Cables and lines ran willy nilly, hard to clean and I'll be damned if I ride a sporty bike with a boxster engine. Maybe a commuter. That said, I know they are good bikes.

italia said:

Time to buy a track/race bike. Once you own a track bike, you'll be ready to move it to where it all belongs

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I already track race my car, (Mustang GT350R) on a bike I’d probably kill my self lol.

Voodooo said:

I use the race gas because I buy it by the 55 gallon drum for my track car and it’s a superior fuel compared to cheap quality pump gas.

My car has a knock sensor that continues to add timing until knock is detected. Durning dyno testing i gained 24 rear wheel hp compared to 93 octane pump gas. I know the 961 doesn’t have a knock sensor.

Click to expand...

Which brings up the question, what is the manufacturers recommended octane for the 961?
It's a 10 to 1 engine, which in the old days meant high compression and high octane.
Today there are lots of fuel efficient engines running at 11 to 1 Cr and even 12to 1, but happy on regular fuel.

Glen

Here is the fuel requirement page from the 961 owner's manual 95 RON.
But I have used both Premium and Regular fuel when necessary, and didn't notice any difference in performance.

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worntorn said:

Which brings up the question, what is the manufacturers recommended octane for the 961?
It's a 10 to 1 engine, which in the old days meant high compression and high octane.
Today there are lots of fuel efficient engines running at 11 to 1 Cr and even 12to 1, but happy on regular fuel.

Glen

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I know what you mean and I know your points.
My car has a stock compression ratio of 12.5:1. It’s minimal octane is 91.
But my car is also water cooled.

I’m sure our 961 will run fine on 87 octane. But as I said, pump gas is a poor quality fuel. I prefer to run the race fuel. I know it’s not needed but it smells a lot better, especially since my Commando is catless and my Dominator runs megaphones.