Commando 850 (1975)

AntrimMan said:

Tag=engine=gearbox. The 850F12xx whatever stamped into the frame neck will differ on the 75 and will not match the other numbers.

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Serial number 333584 puts the date of manufacture around June 1975, by which time the factory were stamping frames and certification plates with the same 6-digit number and no "F" prefix, (see Dyno Dave list, also my own July 75 manufactured Mk.3 has matching frame & plate numbers).

As I'm sure many of us are aware, it isn't difficult to change the certification plate. What may give cause for concern is that the area of the certification plate where the serial number is stamped has been covered over with what appears to be black adhesive tape? :|

CrazyTrain said:

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When I was Commando shopping a few years ago the MK3 Interstate seemed to bring a premium over most other models. Everyone has their favourite model, but it seems a lot of us older guys who are getting back into British bikes look for this model. The electric start, long range tank, vernier adjust isolastics, stronger cases and myriad other improvements were all drawing cards for me.
On the electric start, you might inquire as to whether it has been upgraded to a four pole motor.
To my way of thinking, Commandos have been underpriced for quite a long time. They are now starting to fetch the kind of prices they are really worth. I have a good friend who owns two nice Bonnevilles, a 650 and a 750, but he is looking for a MK3 Interstate for long range touring.
He has ridden my MK3, loved the torque, the lack of vibration and generally everything about the bike.
As someone said of Commandos in general, they are probably the best and most useable of all the British classics. I would add that a Vincent is equally useable, but pricing there makes the OPs Malta MK3 look like a bargain.

Glen

Thanks for the excellent feedback. I'm going to have a look at the serial number on the red tag and will also check to see if it has been tampered with. Will post a picture.

There are only 3 Norton Commandos (that a know about) in Malta. This '75 , a '71 and a '72. The earlier versions need a good going over cosmetically, but run well. The guy who owns them wants an old bike to look old.

Engine sounds good. i posted a video of us starting it. (Last 'picture'). Electric start from cold isn't always successful, but once warmed up a bit works perfectly. Clutch is smooth through the gears. It did spray some oil but it seems that it was coming from the breather. Oil was overfilled. A friend of mine it helping me out with this purchase. He's an expert on classic British bikes especially Triumphs. These are his observations (but admittedly he has very little experience with Nortons)

Mark F said:

It looks like it has been well cared for. That would be a good price for one around here, especially with such low miles.
As for the seat, it looks as if someone has scooped a bit of foam out to reduce the seat height.
Is the current owner a bit vertically challenged?

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Funnily (or not) enough most Maltese are vertically challenged

L.A.B. said:

. What may give cause for concern is that the area of the certification plate where the serial number is stamped has been covered over with what appears to be black adhesive tape? :|

CrazyTrain said:

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LAB the tape may be there to protect the plate ?. My plate is worn shiny there from the throttle cable rubbing against it over the years.

Nice bike 8) I've a late 75 MK3. The headstock, the plate, and engine case on mine are all stamped with the same number. Not sure if thats the original colour though as I thought all MK3 interstates were either painted Silver or Red? Still either way enjoy the bike. :wink:

I was working on this about 6 hours ago and suddenly a tsunami of water was rapidly approaching from a flooding laundry machine. But I’ll leave the points that are the same as others have since pointed out.


The eBay value in the US would be close to 10,000, in my opinion.




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Appears to have a pre- MK III shift lever installed, which are made of steel and not aluminum like the original.

RH twist grip is ruined.

The carburation isn't original, so make sure to ask if the original equipment is available, including the difficult to replace original air-filter. Looks like a single mikuni, which will surely limit maximum performance.

Lots of MK III had soft cams, so keep that in mind. If the cam is original, and fails soon, 10K might not seem like such a fair price. If you can, check the valve clearances.

It’s missing a mirror, and the remaining one isn’t the same as the type that were stock in the US.

The frame identification plate looks worn, or blackened, or like it has rubber glued over it to protect it from cable wear. Or has it even been partially cut away?

The points cover isn't original.

Brake lines have been replaced. Good to ask when the internals were last serviced.

The seat foam modification, as has been mentioned.

Is the lower triple tree powder-coated? Can’t tell from your pictures, but if the finish is a mismatch with the top, consider why.

If the spacing width and placement of the rivets holding the brass plate on the front fender is identical to the spacing of a pre- MK III model fender, it would be an amazing coincidence for the front fender to be original, and thus you’d have to start wondering if there had ever been front-end damage and the plate was added to solve the problem of having an incorrect replacement front fender from an earlier model (with holes for the front stays).

Dome nuts on front disk may not be original, another indication to examine the front-end carefully.

Coil holders appear to be chromed. In the US they were finished with some other type of plating.

When I first saw the striping on the tank I thought it might be re-painted, because the rear angle is a rounded curve instead of an angle formed by intersecting stripes as earlier models have. The pinstripes are often different on re-painted bikes, so if you become suspicious of the mileage it may benefit you to familiarize yourself with Interstate model pin-stripping for the MKIII.





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The only bike that is too expensive is the one you can't afford. Go for it.

Russ

Hi Again. Went to see the bike again and took some more pics. The numbers on the red tag do in fact match the ones on the engine and gearbox. There was some black tape over it, but he explained that he put it there because the cables were rubbing against it. There doesn't seem to be any damage or 'new' parts on the front end to indicate that there was some previous damage.

Numbers matching unit! Better grab it.

CrazyTrain said:

The numbers on the red tag do in fact match the ones on the engine and gearbox.

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That's good news, (although it isn't difficult to change the plate).

The plate stamp looks genuine enough, although it's more common to find just the 6-digit number on the plate, at least the date stamp of 6/75 appears to tie-in with the serial number, it's just odd that the frame number seems around 5-6 months adrift from the serial number.

Does the brass plate say "Norton Motors England"? If so, perhaps member ZFD knows something about its history?

So the frame number is different from the tag?
On thing consistent with Norton numbering is the attention to inconsistency.

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...from an earlier post that didn't show but is on my clipboard, strange?
Yes L.A.B., you are 100% correct, the numbering scheme I referred to is the early style, the later numbering did just what you said, so maybe an eye opener for the new buyer.
on some of the other comments...
The fuel tank striping is a bit noticeable too as mentioned by Robert Norton. It has been mentioned here in the past that there are several variants of the large tank as well as differing striping widths and spacings through the years. I suspect the stripes should meet at approximately a right angle nearest the seat at their lowest point, not in a radius, at least they are that way on the early 75 Interstate tanks on models with 850F126xxx frames. The paint on the subject tank is almost too nice. The Veglia instrument colours are quite vivid but the switch gear colors are aged as would be expected so kinda miss matched there.
The brace fastener holes that are being used to hold the brass tag on the forward mudguard are probably just the giveaway that they were said to be also.
One might question why such a low miler would need all the little changes evidenced by the pics. Maintenance and some boredom perhaps?
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All things considered it is a used motorbike and looks pretty decent in the pics.
All the best to the new owner. Ride and enjoy.

I'd suspect that the brass plate is just an owner embellishment. There is also quite a lot of stainless. The sort of thing that many of us were doing to slightly tatty bikes twenty years ago.

The headstock plate looks as if it has been removed to me. The crushing around the hammer-drive screws is not normally seen on original plates. This doesn't necessarily indicate a problem, probably just that the frame has been tidied up. I wouldn't place a lot of reliance on the mileage. It's a tidy Commando and the mileage will no longer have a great bearing on things. Better a properly rebuilt example than a new soft camshaft.

LGH 949P was first registered in SW London on 1/8/1975 (the first day of the new 'P' suffix registrations). I have an idea sold by Elite Motors in Tooting. Incidentally, LGH950P was a silver Commando that was not re-taxed after 1/8/1976.

The vehicle details for LGH 949P are:
Date of Liability 27 09 1996
Date of First Registration 01 08 1975
Year of Manufacture 1975
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 828cc
CO2 Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type PETROL
Export Marker Y
Vehicle Status Unlicensed
Vehicle Colour BLACK
Vehicle Type Approval Not Available

Unfortunately, the licencing records on-line do not show engine and frame numbers but these are very likely to be recorded on the original applications, a copy of which should be held by the Vintage Motor Cycle Club. If you don't have the original UK registration document confirming engine and frame numbers then it would be worthwhile asking the VMCC to check that nothing has been altered.

I don't find matching numbers any big deal but you wouldn't want to buy a bike that doesn't match the paperwork or with dubious origin.

Is that a UK motorcycle club badge ? Why not contact the secretary and ask if anyone remembers the bike.

79x100 said:

Is that a UK motorcycle club badge ?

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NOC Yorkshire branch badge perhaps?
http://yorkshire.branches.nortonownersclub.org/

L.A.B. said:

79x100 said:

Is that a UK motorcycle club badge ?

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NOC Yorkshire branch badge perhaps?
http://yorkshire.branches.nortonownersclub.org/

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You could well be right, L.A.B. It would be a braver man than me who challenged a member of the Yorkshire branch over his machine's provenance.... :shock:

Yes ,buy this e-start 75,it's in very good shape. Hope you guys figured out why the laundry machine was flooding over. The carburettor is not Mikuni but original Amal on a single manifold ,rare to see this , I would suggest switching to a single flat slide type carburettor when this wears out which should be soon enough. I like all the tags and history involved. My buddy from Malta is a glass artist and tells me almost all of the island is built -up now and the only saving grace are the height restrictions etc. He's very passionate about the island when he talks.

L.A.B. said:

CrazyTrain said:

The numbers on the red tag do in fact match the ones on the engine and gearbox.

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Does the brass plate say "Norton Motors England"? If so, perhaps member ZFD knows something about its history?

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Yes, the brass plate has 'Norton Motors England' engraved into it

Torontonian said:

My buddy from Malta is a glass artist and tells me almost all of the island is built -up now and the only saving grace are the height restrictions etc. He's very passionate about the island when he talks.

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Not much space to build horizontally anymore. The only way is up. It's a great island. Nice folk, safe and incredible weather all year....so we get to ride most days of the year.

My 1947 Vincent Rapide #38, the 38th one built, was originally shipped to Malta as part of the new postwar "Export or die " policy that existed in the UK at the time. If a manufacturer wanted good access to raw materials, then they had to export their product. This policy was necessary in order to draw funds from other countries and bring them into war ravaged near broke old England.
I don't think that policy was still in effect by the time the MK3 Norton was built though. There must have been a sizable UK presence in Malta. I have heard of a few other old Britbikes being found there, a disproportionate number really, given how small Malta is.

Glen

Malta was a part of the British Commonwealth (and still is ?).
Which gave preferential treatment to imports from 'the Motherland'.