Charging issue - won’t charge with headlight on

markaust18

markaust18

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Feb 23, 2020
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Hi all,
I have a charging issue with my Mk 2 Commando. It has a Pazon ignition, new 3 phase alternator, new rotor, new Wassell regulator rectifier. It charges 13.7-9 volts when running without the headlights on, but when I turn the lights on it will not charge at all.
I’m stumped, any ideas what I should be looking for?
Thanks for the help.
 
What voltage at what revs? I doubt my Mk3 is charging at tickover, but fine once I'm riding.

Your title says not starting with the headlights on. If that's the case, some EIs require a min voltage to trigger. I'd suspect you battery giving up under load, even if it appears charged before switching on?
 
I dumped my Wassell regulator rectifier as it had a current draw that would drain a battery in 2 days with the ignition turned off. Likely not your issue but I would not trust it not to have other faults.
 
You either have a 100W bulb or the alternator output is down. Do you get voltage on all three legs of the 3 phase alternator. Set the meter to AC volts not DC and probe the 3 connections.
 
kommando said:
You either have a 100W bulb or the alternator output is down. Do you get voltage on all three legs of the 3 phase alternator. Set the meter to AC volts not DC and probe the 3 connections.
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Also a bad master switch, bad connection of the Blue/Yellow at the master switch, bad connections along the way to the headlight switch, bad headlight switch, bad connections to the handlebar console Blue or Blue/White or Blue/Red, or bad connection to the bulb. In other words, a bad connection involving the headlight can increase the required current to more than the alternator can overcome, especially if the battery is weak. You can eliminate some of that by trying with the headlight on high or low beam - if OK on one but not the other, then the problem is in the handlebar console or the connection from the handlebar console to the bulb socket or the bulb socket itself.

If you check the Blue wire from the headlight switch to the handlebar console Blue wire it should be identical to the battery voltage at all times/RPMs. If that is the case then check the Blue/White (high beam) and Blue/Red as the connection to the headlight bulb connector. Whichever is selected should be identical to the battery voltage at all times. From those checks you can determine if there are any bad connections related to the headlight.

To understand these tests better, see: https://www.gregmarsh.com/MC/ViewPDF.aspx?key=uvd
 
Does the bike still have the original wiring harness? if so it will be past its best by now, corroded terminals, blackwire corrosion along the copper wires under the insulation etc etc, has the switchgear been serviced? the internals corrode as well.
Follow Al Osborns testing regime (to be found on his website @ aoservices.co.uk look under the info sheets tab)
 
marshg246 said:
Also a bad master switch, bad connection of the Blue/Yellow at the master switch, bad connections along the way to the headlight switch, bad headlight switch, bad connections to the handlebar console Blue or Blue/White or Blue/Red, or bad connection to the bulb. In other words, a bad connection involving the headlight can increase the required current to more than the alternator can overcome, especially if the battery is weak. You can eliminate some of that by trying with the headlight on high or low beam - if OK on one but not the other, then the problem is in the handlebar console or the connection from the handlebar console to the bulb socket or the bulb socket itself.

If you check the Blue wire from the headlight switch to the handlebar console Blue wire it should be identical to the battery voltage at all times/RPMs. If that is the case then check the Blue/White (high beam) and Blue/Red as the connection to the headlight bulb connector. Whichever is selected should be identical to the battery voltage at all times. From those checks you can determine if there are any bad connections related to the headlight.

To understand these tests better, see: https://www.gregmarsh.com/MC/ViewPDF.aspx?key=uvd
Click to expand...
Thanks I’ll check all that out, it’s the same on high and low beam.
 
dobba99 said:
Does the bike still have the original wiring harness? if so it will be past its best by now, corroded terminals, blackwire corrosion along the copper wires under the insulation etc etc, has the switchgear been serviced? the internals corrode as well.
Follow Al Osborns testing regime (to be found on his website @ aoservices.co.uk look under the info sheets tab)
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It was rewired some time ago with negative earth. I’ll check out that sight, thanks for the tip
 
"Follow Al Osborns testing regime (to be found on his website @ aoservices.co.uk look under the info sheets tab)"

FWIW, I had never seen that seen that site...Great Stuff!!! Thanks for posting it in your response to markaust18!!


"
 
MexicoMike said:
"Follow Al Osborns testing regime (to be found on his website @ aoservices.co.uk look under the info sheets tab)"

FWIW, I had never seen that seen that site...Great Stuff!!! Thanks for posting it in your response to markaust18!!


"
Click to expand...
Maybe LAB can add it to the technical pages,
 
Hi all,
I have a charging issue with my Mk 2 Commando. It has a Pazon ignition, new 3 phase alternator, new rotor, new Wassell regulator rectifier. It charges 13.7-9 volts when running without the headlights on, but when I turn the lights on it will not charge at all.
I’m stumped, any ideas what I should be looking for?
Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

Hi Mark, I`ve got the same charging problem, was this resolved?
Thanks Nick
 
I have read many of the posts relating to charging issues, hoping not to have to post. I have a 73 850 Commando, with, what I thought was a good battery, 12.63v prior to leaving today for a 50 mile ride. Have a very old, (20 plus years 3 wire stator) and a relatively new installed (1 year old) podtronics voltage regulator bought from Greg. Also purchased from Greg, but not installed, a new 3 wire stator. Presently using a Boyer ignition. Upon returning today from my ride which was GREAT, I measured battery when ignition was turned off, 12.37 V. Bike has been unusually hard starting, many kicks today , cold, not used for a while. After stopping for a half hour to rest old bones, bike took many kicks to start. Once running was just fine. Later stopped for fuel, and again VERY hard to start? I thought maybe older stale fuel, haven't ridden for a while. Also thought maybe a fresh set of plugs might help. That's when I saw the 12.37V figure. Seems pretty simple to me, bike isn't charging. It is currently on a CTEK charger (good one) hopefully will return to fully charged by morning. At which point I'll play with multi meter on cold battery and test upon starting to see if multi meter shows any charging ? I'm guessing if tomorrow indicates a fully charged battery, that it's not likely the battery? At which point it may be either the voltage regulator or the old stator. Am I close to being right? Any help would be great. Thanks so much. Robert TN
 
Robert Shaw said:
I have read many of the posts relating to charging issues, hoping not to have to post. I have a 73 850 Commando, with, what I thought was a good battery, 12.63v prior to leaving today for a 50 mile ride. Have a very old, (20 plus years 3 wire stator) and a relatively new installed (1 year old) podtronics voltage regulator bought from Greg. Also purchased from Greg, but not installed, a new 3 wire stator. Presently using a Boyer ignition. Upon returning today from my ride which was GREAT, I measured battery when ignition was turned off, 12.37 V. Bike has been unusually hard starting, many kicks today , cold, not used for a while. After stopping for a half hour to rest old bones, bike took many kicks to start. Once running was just fine. Later stopped for fuel, and again VERY hard to start? I thought maybe older stale fuel, haven't ridden for a while. Also thought maybe a fresh set of plugs might help. That's when I saw the 12.37V figure. Seems pretty simple to me, bike isn't charging. It is currently on a CTEK charger (good one) hopefully will return to fully charged by morning. At which point I'll play with multi meter on cold battery and test upon starting to see if multi meter shows any charging ? I'm guessing if tomorrow indicates a fully charged battery, that it's not likely the battery? At which point it may be either the voltage regulator or the old stator. Am I close to being right? Any help would be great. Thanks so much. Robert TN
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What type of battery? You did not buy a Podtronics from me!!! The only regulator I sell is the VR-0030 from Tri-Spark.

You should measure the voltage at the Boyer. Depending on its age, it may require more voltage and poor connections to it may make it get less than battery voltage.

With the bike off, measure the voltage at the battery. Start the bike, rev to 2500, measure the voltage. If any higher, the battery has what it needs to charge. If it does not charge, then suspect the battery. Also, this is a Commando - to not ride around slow or at least downshift to keep the rpms at least at 2500 (3000+ is better).

You may be losing power in the wiring. I've seen corroded fuse holders cause problems. If you measure the Brown/Blue wire at the battery and at the master switch (not to ground - one lead on each), you must measure 0 volts. If you measure any other voltage, then your fuse holder is corroded and dropping your voltage just like any other poor connection will.

It should never take "many kicks" to start a Commando when hot or cold.

You can always call me while at the bike with your meter and we can figure out if it is an electrical problem or more likely a partly clogged pilot circuit.
 
Greg, Good afternoon. I performed some tests on the charging system this AM. After charging all last night battery showed 13v. confirmed via multi meter. Next started bike (11 kicks, to start, crazy and don't know why) and bike showed about 12.5 or so at idle and when revving to about 2500 13.5v and revving more showed 14.5v. did a resistance test on the stator while disconnected from the voltage regulator per you tube video and readings showed OL on all 3 wires. According to video, that was good. Battery resting now at 12.96v. Going to do a load test shortly on battery. Based upon what I've seen as a result of the tests so far, Battery and charging system appears to be good. I have NO idea why yesterday I left for ride at 12.63 volts, and got home at 12.35 volts, makes no sense to me. As it really doesn't charge much at all at idle, I really like to keep it up in the upper range over 2500 as much as I can. Can some one tell me why I have to kick so many times to start bike???? Just put new plugs in, (old ones pretty loaded up) will see if that affects starting. I tried to call Greg, (He is the answer man) but just left a message as he was unavailable. Any help or suggestions are more than welcomed. Robert Working on this is almost as bad as working on my Kaw triples. They are kind of like the X Files. Robert Thanks
 
Robert Shaw said:
Greg, Good afternoon. I performed some tests on the charging system this AM. After charging all last night battery showed 13v. confirmed via multi meter. Next started bike (11 kicks, to start, crazy and don't know why) and bike showed about 12.5 or so at idle and when revving to about 2500 13.5v and revving more showed 14.5v. did a resistance test on the stator while disconnected from the voltage regulator per you tube video and readings showed OL on all 3 wires. According to video, that was good. Battery resting now at 12.96v. Going to do a load test shortly on battery. Based upon what I've seen as a result of the tests so far, Battery and charging system appears to be good. I have NO idea why yesterday I left for ride at 12.63 volts, and got home at 12.35 volts, makes no sense to me. As it really doesn't charge much at all at idle, I really like to keep it up in the upper range over 2500 as much as I can. Can some one tell me why I have to kick so many times to start bike???? Just put new plugs in, (old ones pretty loaded up) will see if that affects starting. I tried to call Greg, (He is the answer man) but just left a message as he was unavailable. Any help or suggestions are more than welcomed. Robert Working on this is almost as bad as working on my Kaw triples. They are kind of like the X Files. Robert Thanks
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The charging is good, the battery is most likely not. What kind of battery? (Lead Acid, AGM, GEL, Lithium)

If you mean me, I have no message so can't call back.

More than two kicks - you need to fix what's wrong. Probably carbs, probably clogged pilot circuit, possibly air leak.
 
in answer. Motobatt AGM, have them in all my bikes. For the most part pretty good experience. Performed a load test on battery, with a load tester not a multi meter. Showed 9.9V under load. May still be the battery? My problem is , I went to start the bike again, to test other things and no matter how hard I tried, had to give up, bad knee and back sore. Have always been lucky in kicking, don't really know the proper technique? Am running a Boyer ignition, haven't checked timing in a while. Running a single Mikuni, I believe 34mm with an auto choke lever. (really like the simplicity) amal ticklers always leaked on me, no matter what I did. I took the bike out yesterday, 50 mile ride, minus the starting issue and the charging issue, bike ran FABULOUS as usual. I would like to re check the timing if that is an issue, but, can't kick it to start. I have an inline valve to prevent oil from traveling while not in use. Oil level is proper. When bike is running, it is great. I don't ever remember it being this hard to start. RED Line synthetic oil 20-50w, not positive. I have always tried to do most of the work myself. Am 72, 220lbs in very good shape, minus the knee issue. If looking directly at right side of bike and standing there. I fold out kicker and lower to about 8 or 9 o'clock position and kick. Sometimes, ( not knowing proper technique) I will jump and kicker will not move. (220 lbs standing in mid air) will pull in clutch handle and adjust and try again. TOOOOOO many times today, with nothing but bad results, had to quit. I read some of the forum posts and people are doing one or 2 kicks and off they go. I hate to take my bike to a shop, its my kid. I've owned it for 25 years! If some one can help, that would be great. Robert
 
Robert Shaw said:
in answer. Motobatt AGM, have them in all my bikes. For the most part pretty good experience. Performed a load test on battery, with a load tester not a multi meter. Showed 9.9V under load. May still be the battery? My problem is , I went to start the bike again, to test other things and no matter how hard I tried, had to give up, bad knee and back sore. Have always been lucky in kicking, don't really know the proper technique? Am running a Boyer ignition, haven't checked timing in a while. Running a single Mikuni, I believe 34mm with an auto choke lever. (really like the simplicity) amal ticklers always leaked on me, no matter what I did. I took the bike out yesterday, 50 mile ride, minus the starting issue and the charging issue, bike ran FABULOUS as usual. I would like to re check the timing if that is an issue, but, can't kick it to start. I have an inline valve to prevent oil from traveling while not in use. Oil level is proper. When bike is running, it is great. I don't ever remember it being this hard to start. RED Line synthetic oil 20-50w, not positive. I have always tried to do most of the work myself. Am 72, 220lbs in very good shape, minus the knee issue. If looking directly at right side of bike and standing there. I fold out kicker and lower to about 8 or 9 o'clock position and kick. Sometimes, ( not knowing proper technique) I will jump and kicker will not move. (220 lbs standing in mid air) will pull in clutch handle and adjust and try again. TOOOOOO many times today, with nothing but bad results, had to quit. I read some of the forum posts and people are doing one or 2 kicks and off they go. I hate to take my bike to a shop, its my kid. I've owned it for 25 years! If some one can help, that would be great. Robert
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The battery is bad.

If an old Boyer, that might be the problem. Newer ones don't need as much voltage. You need to measure the voltage at the Boyer - you may have poor connections between it and the battery.

Will the bike idle at 1100 with the "choke" off? If so, it's probably not the carb's fault; if not, it's the carbs fault most likely. If the rubber on the end of the "choke" is worn out, then you are "choked" all the time. I keep writing "choke" since it is an enhancer, not a choke. Chokes reduce the air, the Mikuni increases the fuel.

I use Tri-Spark ignitions and Amal concentric carbs on all my bikes. I'm annoyed when they don't start on the first kick. I do not kick a third time until I figure out it didn't start on the 1st or 2nd kick.

I'm 75 with both hips replaced, arthritis everywhere and in piss-poor shape. I never consider where the engine is in the cycle - I simply kick - I am unable to jump to kick. I also am on the timing side of the bike, it's on the center stand, facing mostly forward, and kick with my right leg. Never touch the throttle.
 
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