Capacitor

crusadersports · Feb 9, 2020

kommando said:
Again it depends on how hard you can kick, as for 'If so' its documented in their technical details. Note the box is the same for twins but twins are easier to kick over so less likely to be an issue.

http://www.pazon.com/ignition-system/sure-fire-british-single-12volt.html

Important note for owners of big single/high compression models (e.g. B44/B441/B50):
The Sure Fire system requires a minimum cranking speed before sparks are produced (typically 100-150rpm). This kit can be fitted to these models, but due to the potential of difficulty in kick-starting, we recommend fitting a digital ignition system, e.g. Smart Fire PD1 system. Due to the triggering method, our digital systems fire from zero rpm upwards, so more suited to bikes that are more difficult to kick-start.

Interesting, thanks Kommando and Jim.

Given Ludwig has started a Cdo with Surefire on the capacitor, bad wiring aside, lack of sparks should only be due to a bad capacitor or bad alternator, (assuming one is kicking hard enough). I fitted a new capacitor from rgm about a year ago:

https://www.rgmnorton.co.uk/buy/2mc-capacitor-for-mk3_4507.htm

So I'm guessing it's mostly an alternator problem that's preventing mine from sparking on the capacitor. Battery charging seems ok so the 3 phase is obviously producing some output.

What's the best way to test alternator output that will actually measure output, not just a yes or no?

comnoz · Feb 9, 2020

Is your rotor centered horizontally in the stator. A little to one side makes a big difference.

I can be of much help with the specs but comparing the voltage at idle with another bike would be the best. But both systems would need the same load to be comparable.

Are you sure you can get two good compression events with a kick? I know I can't on my bike unless the motor is warm and I am really putting it to the kickstarter. The primary belt drive ratio will affect this also.

maylar · Feb 9, 2020

crusadersports said:
What's the best way to test alternator output that will actually measure output, not just a yes or no?

Put a 10 amp ammeter in series with the battery (in place of the fuse). Start the engine and see at what rpm the battery starts taking a charge. If you get charging current before 2000 rpm the alternator is working fine.

crusadersports · Feb 10, 2020

comnoz said:
Is your rotor centered horizontally in the stator. A little to one side makes a big difference.

I can be of much help with the specs but comparing the voltage at idle with another bike would be the best. But both systems would need the same load to be comparable.

Are you sure you can get two good compression events with a kick? I know I can't on my bike unless the motor is warm and I am really putting it to the kickstarter. The primary belt drive ratio will affect this also.

Thanks Jim and Maylar. I have an ammeter somewhere so will wire that in and see what it says. Jim, yes the stator air gap is constant, I spent a long time getting that the same all the way around. Maybe I will have another heave on the kickstand as from what you're saying I doubt I am getting 2 good compression events especially from cold. Primary drive is still standard chain.

comnoz · Feb 10, 2020

crusadersports said:
Thanks Jim and Maylar. I have an ammeter somewhere so will wire that in and see what it says. Jim, yes the stator air gap is constant, I spent a long time getting that the same all the way around. Maybe I will have another heave on the kickstand as from what you're saying I doubt I am getting 2 good compression events especially from cold. Primary drive is still standard chain.

I was not referring to the air gap. I was talking about the rotor being shimmed correctly on the crankshaft. In or out a little too far makes a big difference. The magnets need to be directly in line with the stator poles.
If you put the rotor into the stator with the assembly removed from the bike it will seek the position it needs to be in after it's installed.

crusadersports · Feb 11, 2020

comnoz said:
I was not referring to the air gap. I was talking about the rotor being shimmed correctly on the crankshaft. In or out a little too far makes a big difference. The magnets need to be directly in line with the stator poles.
If you put the rotor into the stator with the assembly removed from the bike it will seek the position it needs to be in after it's installed.

Oh strewth, hadn't thought of that one Jim!

So put them together off the bike, and then presumably measure and mark before comparing same on assembly?

Then if adjustment required, shims behind the rotor to push it further out, but what if it needs to go further onto the crank? Skim afew thou off the back of the rotor or shim the stator with washers?

comnoz · Feb 11, 2020

crusadersports said:
Oh strewth, hadn't thought of that one Jim!

So put them together off the bike, and then presumably measure and mark before comparing same on assembly?

Then if adjustment required, shims behind the rotor to push it further out, but what if it needs to go further onto the crank? Skim afew thou off the back of the rotor or shim the stator with washers?

That would be correct. Usually the rotor is too far in without a few shims.

You can shim the stator out if needed.

maylar · Feb 11, 2020

Be aware that the timing scale on the outer primary cover comes dangerously close to the rotor. If you shim the rotor out more you should carefully check for clearance there.