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Cam and follower tests.

Discussion in 'Norton Commando Motorcycles (Classic)' started by comnoz, Aug 12, 2018.

  1. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Well, It is for me.
    Actually the roller follower in gasoline engines came about because of the catalytic converter.
    The converter requires elimination of the heavy metals like ZDDP to prevent failure of the converter. Once the ZDDP was reduced then cam failures became common. [around 1980] The quickest fix by the manufacturers was the adoption of the roller follower which does not need ZDDP.
     
  2. swooshdave

    swooshdave

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    So if you buy a new set of lifters from AN they will have the spigot? Do you have pictures of the differences?
     
  3. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Yes, they will be have the spigot.

    They appear the same externally but if you look inside toward the bottom of the follower you can see the bronze colored weld around the inside bottom corner of the spigotted units.
     
  4. rvich

    rvich VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Should a wary person have any follower they want to use tested for hardness?
     
    CanukNortonNut likes this.
  5. swooshdave

    swooshdave

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Now to be fair someone running 45+ year old parts that take a serious pounding can expect occasional failures.

    It’s nice that they are making improvements to the new parts.
     
  6. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    After what I have seen recently, I would.

    When using a case hardened billet cam like OEM or a hardweld buildup like a Megacycle or Webcam, I would want the follower to be at least 3 degrees harder than the cam.

    I don't know the follower requirements for a chilled iron or a nitride hardened cam. Jim
     
  7. Fullauto

    Fullauto VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Firstly, we're talking NEW parts here, not 45 year old parts. Secondly, They are not making improvements in this case. The followers are faulty. Simple as that.
     
  8. swooshdave

    swooshdave

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    As noted. Doesn't mean they can't be resolved in the future. I'm sure your heads were perfect every time. :rolleyes:
     
  9. CanukNortonNut

    CanukNortonNut

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Jim,
    You have a radius on your follower on your spintron video that you are testing for your next cam for your bike correct? what radius are you running? 3"- 4"radius ?
    Cheers,
    Thomas
     
  10. CanukNortonNut

    CanukNortonNut

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Would putting a radius on a follower of the old style weld type increase the likelihood of a separation failure or no difference.
    Cheers,
    Thomas
     
  11. rvich

    rvich VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009

    The ice be pretty thin on this lake and the water below is black! Best to be putting on a life preserver instead of skates!
     
    Nater_Potater and MikeG like this.
  12. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    4 inch
     
  13. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    It has not made a difference that I have noticed.
     
  14. Time Warp

    Time Warp .......back to the 70's. VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Will these followers became available ? :D

    I probably missed it in the video but are these hard faced followers only suitable for the Web Cam type camshafts or the stock material (1970's) cam's also ?
     
  15. worntorn

    worntorn

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Got this bit of info back from T Prince re the cams he supplied me for the 1360 Vincent. The problems showing up with Norton's had me wondering about these cams, which are very high lift but looking good so far.

    Seems the hardness difference requirement between cam and follower for Stellite has been known about for awhile.


    "Hi Glen, How you going, My cams are case hardened EN36 62-64 Rock .40” deep the follower are 56-58 RH.

    Stellite is funny stuff again the must be a difference in cam to follower hardness.
    I used many stellited cams in the past. After a short time they looked like tram lines but did not wear any more.

    The main reason why I started to make my own was when you weld old cams up they distort all over the place and the press fit is no longer good, by the time you have done all that the cost is more that making a new cam."


    I'm assuming .40" deep is probably .040" deep.

    Glen
     
  16. o0norton0o

    o0norton0o

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2015
    I thought my post was relevant because I assumed Jim was removing the stellite and doing a hardweld build up on the follower to prevent the delamination possibility that I experienced. Maybe I was wrong...
     
  17. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    You were right.

    I was removing the original welded stellite pad from the non-spiggoted followers and replacing it with hardweld.
    Both as a way to prevent delamination and to get consistent hardness.
     
  18. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008

    If there were cams available in the 62 to 64 range for a Norton then a 3 degree softer follower might work out OK, but I would be concerned about durability because of the small footprint of the Norton follower.
     
  19. swooshdave

    swooshdave

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    I think I see sharks under ice too! :cool:
     
    Nater_Potater likes this.
  20. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    I would not be making any followers available without quite a bit more testing in a real engine.
    The idea is for hardweld cams or OEM type case hardened cams. I don't know how compatible they would be with cast iron or nitrided cams. I would just have to try it and see.