Bringing My '79 Bonneville Special Back to Life

L.A.B. wrote:

I would tell him how lucky he is that he doesn't have to abide by the UK (I think Europe [EC] is much the same) regulations, -and that's got to be worth at least two hours polishing!

I did tell him that and suggested he read this thread. I think he'll do that after school today. Our sons are very lucky kids!

Al

Tulsaalva said:

It gets about half-way through when the prompt "Timed Out" appears. I don't know if it my Macintosh or if the files are too large.

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OK, I have an alternative that I will try...

Tulsaalva said:

I appreciate your efforts. I am able to get by with the Factory manual and a Clymers. I'd appreciate your mailing address, if you don't mind. I'd like to send you a little "thanks" gift.

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Well! That's very kind Al - Thanks very much!

Tulsaalva said:

At age 15.5, a teen in Oklahoma can get a limited learner's permit for a car. He must pass the written test and have a licensed driver, over 21, in the front passenger's seat.

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17 is the UK minimum age to drive a car, and a learner must also be accompanied by a qualified driver in the front passenger seat. Our theory test is taken later on though and must be passed before the practical test is taken.


http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... DG_4022547

Tulsaalva said:

chauffeuring them around would be a real hassle!

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That's more or less expected over here now I think, but of course the distances travelled over here in our small and somewhat overpopulated country would be nowhere near as great?
Not that youngsters would be able to drive to many UK schools anyway, as there would probably be nowhere to park!

'79 Bonneville Special won't start.

Gentlemen,

The Special is finally together with a new battery and fresh fuel. The fuel is the highest octane available, 91 octane. All lights work except the turn signals and the brake light but that should be pretty straight forward. I'll get to that later.

Sixteen and I cannot get it to start. It ran just fine when it was parked in 1998. My brother put it in mothballs so I'm not sure what he did but it ran beautifully when he did it.

There was no fuel in the tank or the carbs when we started to bring it back to life so I assume Billy drained both.

There appears to be no spark. I tested it the same way I test 924s, by properly hooking up a timing light and, in this case, kicking it over. We get no flashing light from the timing light.

Kicking may also be part of the problem. Sixteen has never kick started a motorcycle before and I, haven't kicked a bike since 1969. It was an old Triumph 500 and started quite easily during the year I owned it. Can y'all give us some tips on starting techniques and where to start troubleshooting the spark problem?

When Sixteen kicks, there are two "notches." He easily kicks through the first, but compression stops him from going through the second "notch."

I'm going to go back down to the garage and try taking out a spark plug, grounding it against the head and watching to see if there is spark. I'll let y'all know the results.

I have found a young mechanic here in town who knows the new Triumphs but hasn't a clue about the classics, so it seems we're on our own. Years ago there was an older fellow who worked on them but I haven't been able to find him. I'm still looking.

Thanks a lot, y'all! I look forward to your replies!

Al

As your T140 is a 'D' model, then it should have a Lucas 'Rita' electronic ignition system fitted, and should also be a Negative Earth/Ground system? Unlike previous T140 models that were +ve Ground.

Obviously if as you say, there is no spark, then you will need to check the wiring and connections to the Rita (type AB11?) box, and also the pickup wiring? As it has sat for so long then it could have developed an electronic fault, but I suggest you check through all the wiring first? And check that the battery power is actually reaching the Rita box?
Bypass the ignition and kill switches if necessary, to see if that makes any difference?

The "two notches" sounds like your valve adjustment is off and you have better compression on one side than the other.

Check 'em.

Trace your 12 volts as suggested, bypassing switches as needed to complete a good circuit.

Battery voltage is important.

L.A.B. said:

As your T140 is a 'D' model, then it should have a Lucas 'Rita' electronic ignition system fitted, and should also be a Negative Earth/Ground system? Unlike previous T140 models that were +ve Ground.

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Right you are, L.A.B. on both the Rita ignition and the negative ground. I have a spare unused Rita if it is needed. I hope not!

Obviously if as you say, there is no spark, then you will need to check the wiring and connections to the Rita (type AB11?) box, and also the pickup wiring? As it has sat for so long then it could have developed an electronic fault, but I suggest you check through all the wiring first? And check that the battery power is actually reaching the Rita box?
Bypass the ignition and kill switches if necessary, to see if that makes any difference?

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As mentioned above, I have other electrical problems, the turn signals and brake lights. These, of course, would not affect the ignition, though.

Thanks for the tips; I'll check it through.

Al

grandpaul said:

The "two notches" sounds like your valve adjustment is off and you have better compression on one side than the other.

Check 'em.

Trace your 12 volts as suggested, bypassing switches as needed to complete a good circuit.

Battery voltage is important.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Grandpaul! I would never have thought of the valve adjustment as a factor.

The battery is new. After I added the acid I put it on a "battery tender," designed to maintain voltage in a battery sitting for a period of time, for about a week. It should be very strong.

I'll also check to see if the squirrels harvested any nest-building material from the wiring like they did on my old Commando. I haven't seen any evidence of that so far.

Does anybody have any tips for Sixteen on kick-starting techniques? My faded memory tells me there was something about finding the top of the compression stroke before kicking. I tried kicking it over myself but my 134 pound, sixty-eight year old body is just not equal to the task.

Also, I seem to remember that the bike can "kick back" if the ignition timing is off. Is this true and, if so, can it cause serious damage... like a broken ankle or something?

Al

Righty-O. Find TDC of a compression stroke and nudge just past it a touch.

Then, stomp on it with your weight shiftng to give it all your weight.

I weighed 130 for most of my Britbike iding years, and have only put on 10 or 12 pounds in the last 10 years; I never had a problem kickstarting a properly tuned bike, and not a lot of problem kicking fussy ones. It's all in throwing your weight correctly.

Also, once the bike is running right, you shouldn't kick it on the stand, you shoud kick it free-standing. A bit trickier on the balance, but easy once you get the hang of it.

grandpaul said:

Also, once the bike is running right, you shouldn't kick it on the stand, you shoud kick it free-standing. A bit trickier on the balance, but easy once you get the hang of it.

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Is this to avoid damage to the center stand, Grandpaul?

Al

It's to avoid damage to the frame.

The sidestand is the culprit, center stand not so much.

I'm pleased to report that the T140D breathed fire yesterday. It starts on the first or second kick, usually the first, and runs like a Bonneville should.

The clutch doesn't disengage. I'm planning to disassemble it and separate the plates but I'm wondering if y'all have any suggestions or cautions you'd care to share.

A fellow at the local Brit Bike shop suggested that I place the front wheel against a curb (kerb) and do a "burnout." He said that'd separate the plates. It sounds dangerous to me!

Twenty-five years of disuse have also made the brakes weird, to say the least. The rear brake doesn't work at all while it takes little more than a grip from one's pinky to lock up the front brake.

I've bought o-ring kits for both master cylinders and both calipers and plan to disassemble the whole system, clean it and put it back together again.

There is a shop here in Tulsa that makes braided stainless steel brake lines to order. They aren't too expensive so I'm considering taking that step, too, just in case the rubber in the factory units has deteriorated over the years. Any opinions?

Should I use DOT 5 brake fluid? Why or why not?

I'm most grateful to all y'all for the help in bringing the old motorcycle to this point. Sixteen, Eighteen, and I are all looking forward to riding it when it's finally right.

Thanks to all!!!

Al

If the friction plates still have significant material on them (nicely pronounced wear grooves), soak them for a few hours in gasoline or solvent to get out as much of the impregnated oil as possible, then leave them in the sun to dry, turn them over for even drying. If the plates are worn, replace them with cheap Emgo plates (REALLY).

Take the steel plates and turn them in circles on smooth concrete to knock the glaze off, until you get a nice uniform "sanded" surface.

Re-install with the clutch hub through bolts JUST showing through the first thread in the slot of the adjuster screws (makes it a bit hard to turn those screws, but with a special tool or with care, it's not such a big deal).

Turn the engine over while pulling in the clutch and make sure the pressure plate is spinning "true" and not wobbling. If it's wobbling, adjust the appropriate screw(s) to get it to spin true.

Re-adjust the cable by loosening all slack at the lever, then adjust the center adjuster till it just touches, back off 1/4 turn and tighten the locknut. Then remove most of the free cable length at the top of the transmission, then take out all but a tad bit of slack at the lever.

Pour in 1/4 cup engine oil into your primary to re-establish the primary chaincase oil level. THIS IS NOT CLUTCH LUBE - IT'S NOT A "WET" CLUTCH.

Test by pulling in the clutch lever and pushing the kickstarter, it should "slide" through. You should have satisfactory clutch service and no sticking now.

Tulsaalva said:

The clutch doesn't disengage. I'm planning to disassemble it and separate the plates but I'm wondering if y'all have any suggestions or cautions you'd care to share.

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Pulling the clutch and operating the kickstart should free the clutch off eventually? Or put the bike in gear, pull the clutch lever in and rock the bike backwards and forwards until it frees off? Both ways might take a while if the clutch hasn't been freed off for quite a while (25 years!).

Tulsaalva said:

There is a shop here in Tulsa that makes braided stainless steel brake lines to order. They aren't too expensive so I'm considering taking that step, too, just in case the rubber in the factory units has deteriorated over the years. Any opinions?

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The maximum service life of rubber brake hoses is supposed to be 10 years, so I'd certainly replace them!
I would opt for the braided hoses personally, and I make my own braided hoses up.

Tulsaalva said:

Should I use DOT 5 brake fluid? Why or why not?

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AP Lockheed DO NOT RECOMMEND the use of silicone brake fluid:
http://www.apracing.com/info/index.asp? ... e+Fluid_41

Quote:
______________________________________________

"All AP Racing Brake Fluids are Polyalkalene Glycol Ether based and are not a silicone based fluid. AP Racing do not sell and do not recommend using a silicone based brake fluid with any of its products."
______________________________________________


Although I have known owners to use it, apparently without problems, but there is a chance that the rubber piston seals might degrade?
Never mix the two different types of fluid together.

I decided to go with DOT 4, because the old Porsches around here use it, too.

There is no play in the links of the chain and the sprockets seem to be in good shape. I'm going to use the assembly.

The chain is pretty dried out. I started out by soaking it in petrol for a few days. I now have it immersed in a combination of 20/50 engine oil and Molybdenum sitting outside in the Oklahoma sun. The goal is to get some moly atoms to bond with the steel.

I also remember a friend who was fond of cooking his chain in axle grease and letting it cool before reinstalling it. I think that ended when he set fire to his kitchen.


I'd surely entertain the thought of converting to belt drive. I've heard such a kit exists.

Any tips on readying the chain for the road?

Al

I received the parts for the stainless steel brake line system. The banjo bolts don't screw into the master cylinders and the Triumph bolts don't fit the banjos.

I'm hoping to find the right banjo bolt size. Does anyone know the size of these?

I'm going to need three male-male adaptors but I'm pretty sure the same company sells them.

The original brake lines look fine, no cracks or signs of leakage. I may refit them until I sort out the problems with the stainless parts.

The bike is sitting on a stand, missing both wheels and all brake parts. It sure looks a long way away from the highway!

Al

Tulsaalva said:

The banjo bolts don't screw into the master cylinders and the Triumph bolts don't fit the banjos.

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The original thread size of the brake hose fittings/master cylinder/caliper is 3/8" fine SAE (UNF).

Obviously you didn't specify the end fitting thread type to the maker? So there's always the chance they could be metric size (8mm) banjos and bolts? Or some other Imperial size thread form? Most bikes being 'metric' these days some brake line makers may not even think to ask.

If so, then the banjos and bolts need to be changed for 3/8" type, (or 10mm metric banjos will do) but of course metric banjo bolts will be no good?

L.A.B. said:

Tulsaalva said:

The banjo bolts don't screw into the master cylinders and the Triumph bolts don't fit the banjos.

Click to expand...

The original thread size of the brake hose fittings/master cylinder/caliper is 3/8" fine SAE (UNF).

Obviously you didn't specify the end fitting thread type to the maker? So there's always the chance they could be metric size (8mm) banjos and bolts? Or some other Imperial size thread form? Most bikes being 'metric' these days some brake line makers may not even think to ask.

If so, then the banjos and bolts need to be changed for 3/8" type, (or 10mm metric banjos will do) but of course metric banjo bolts will be no good?

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That was the problem, L.A.B. I took the old banjo bolts to the hardware store and verified them to be 3/8"X24 (Threads Per Inch). I've got the right ones ordered. I hope.

Now my problem is the frozen clutch. I decided against the put-the-front-tire-against-the-kerb=and-do-a-burnout technique. It seemed a little on the wrong side of wisdom... especially with no brakes.

But I haven't been able to get the primary cover off. I've tapped around it with a soft mallet and the sound and vibration tells me that it's loose around the top, but it won't come off easily. I've been very gentle because I don't want to have to go looking for a new primary cover.

The manual simply says, "Withdraw the primary cover."

Any tips, y'all?

Al

grandpaul said:

If the friction plates still have significant material on them (nicely pronounced wear grooves), soak them for a few hours in gasoline or solvent to get out as much of the impregnated oil as possible, then leave them in the sun to dry, turn them over for even drying. If the plates are worn, replace them with cheap Emgo plates (REALLY).

Take the steel plates and turn them in circles on smooth concrete to knock the glaze off, until you get a nice uniform "sanded" surface.

Re-install with the clutch hub through bolts JUST showing through the first thread in the slot of the adjuster screws (makes it a bit hard to turn those screws, but with a special tool or with care, it's not such a big deal).

Turn the engine over while pulling in the clutch and make sure the pressure plate is spinning "true" and not wobbling. If it's wobbling, adjust the appropriate screw(s) to get it to spin true.

Re-adjust the cable by loosening all slack at the lever, then adjust the center adjuster till it just touches, back off 1/4 turn and tighten the locknut. Then remove most of the free cable length at the top of the transmission, then take out all but a tad bit of slack at the lever.

Pour in 1/4 cup engine oil into your primary to re-establish the primary chaincase oil level. THIS IS NOT CLUTCH LUBE - IT'S NOT A "WET" CLUTCH.

Test by pulling in the clutch lever and pushing the kickstarter, it should "slide" through. You should have satisfactory clutch service and no sticking now.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips, Grandpaul! As soon as I figure how to get the primary cover off, I'll take it apart.

I was in Jack's Motorcycles here in Tulsa t'other day when LaNelle suggested I might change the original clutch for a Barnett unit. She showed me the plates. They do look to be quality. One less plate is required but she didn't know exactly how many.

LaNelle said I'd have a "much nicer" clutch. The thing does take an athlete to squeeze the lever. It'd be nice if it were lighter.

Seems the Barnett clutch kits re not too expensive...

What do you think, Grandpaul?

Al

Al,

Hopefully, you have removed all 8 screws and 2 nuts? Don't mistake the oil drain screw for one of the eight. The gear pedal also has to be removed first.

Tulsaalva said:

The thing does take an athlete to squeeze the lever.

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It shouldn't do?