Best clutch cables?

Sadly the Flanders cable place looks expensive.............here in the UK its possible to buy everything needed to make 5 or 6 cables very cheaply, and its all supplied together in a kit. I seem to remember Venhill does something along similar lines, albeit at around double the cost.

DogT said:

Thanks for the Flanders link. I knew I had seen it somewhere but couldn't remember.

Here's a good link to Raber's Excel spreadsheet for the Norton Cables. Seems to agree with the few I have. Opens on the Triumph/BSA worksheet, but at the bottom is the Norton cables worksheet too.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... POEP7PcWXQ

Dave
69S

Click to expand...

Dave,
I just took a look at the above link. Are the Norton cables ends listed anywhere?

Yes, not to repeat myself, look down at the bottom of the spreadsheet and you will see the Norton tab.

Dave
69S

Hi everyone,

My name's Chris and I hope you won't mind if I jump in here regarding Venhill cables. I'm one of the importers of Venhill cable product for the US and have an alert set up to tell me when people are talking about Venhill online. And here we are. Of course, there are ready made Norton cables available, but I noticed that you were also discussing cable kits or parts for do-it-yourself jobs. Venhill does offer the more expensive multi-cable kits as mentioned, but we also offer single-use "universal" cable kits that serve well as one-off sources for the items needed to make your own cable. A clutch cable kit is typically item number U01-1-100 and has a recommended US retail price of $19.98. These kits include:

* 1.35 meters (4.4 feet) of 7mm OD black PVC coated, spiral wound, Teflon lined outer conduit
* 1.35 meters (4.4 feet) of 2mm OD galvanized steel wire (1 x 19 strand)
* 1 ferrule, 6.5mm OD nose
* 1 ferrule, 7mm OD nose
* 1 ferrule, 8mm OD nose
* 1 8mm x 1.25 x 42mm adjuster with nut
* 1 neoprene adjuster boot
* 1 brass barrel nipple, 8mm DIA x 9mm
* 1 brass barrel nipple, 6mm DIA x 10mm (2.1mm bore)
* 1 brass trumpet nipple, 6mm -> 3.5mm OD, 2.5 ID, 9.5mm length
* 1 N8 nylon nipple sleeve, 8mm OD
* 1 N10 nylon nipple sleeve, 3/8" OD

I don't know if these kits are available from the dealers you already use, but they are being stocked in the US with immediate shipping available. If you'd like more information regarding how to get them, please let me know if it would be ok for me to post that information here and I'll offer up.

Thanks for the positive comments about Venhill. We appreciate it!

Chris

$20 for a clutch cable is a deal. I doubt if anyone would whine if you posted where to get the kits. Is there a kit available that would do say the clutch, front brake, air control, and throttle? The Norton throttle is a 1 into 2 (3 cables total) because of the 2 carbs and it has an adjuster near the throttle. The air control is the same without the adjuster, just different ends. The front brake has a switch in it too for the brake light.

Is there such a thing as heavy duty cable for the front brake that would give less stretch?

Thanks,
Dave
69S

Hi Dave,

We typically suggest using a clutch cable kit for front brake purposes, although that won't work in this case because of the switch. I don't know if we could provide a "universal" front brake cable kit including a switch, but I can ask. I know we have the components because we offer the complete front brake assemblies. We do have similar kits for throttle purposes, but 1.35 meters might not be enough to make up three cables total, and one end of the throttle cables is already fitted with a permanent carb nipple, so you'd actually need three throttle kits in total, at least as our inventory is currently designed. Throttle cable kits have a suggested retail of $13.98.

When the throttle kits come with one end a 3x3 carb nipple, will that work as an air control cable?

As far as a heavy duty brake cable option, the short answer is yes. There is an upgrade for all Venhill cables to what's called a "T4 Spec". I've only seen people do it on clutch cables, but it can be done on anything. This upgrades the housing and wire to a very heavy duty spec, basically a 10mm housing and 3mm wire. I would only recommend these for extreme situations and only for cable routes that don't have much bending or need the cable to have much compliance, because the T4 spec cables do not flex very much at all.

If you want to see how to buy these things, see our eBay store "venhilldirect". We will soon also have them available at venhillusa.com, but there are only brake lines there as of yet.

Chris

I am no expert on cables, but in the past I have found its possible to reuse the original front brake switch if you are making a new cable. Unless you are really into an original looking bike though, its best not to have a front brake switch in the cable, as deleting this makes for a better less spongy feeing brake.

I've been trying to come up with a micro-switch arrangement for the front brake switch to get rid of that sponge switch, but really don't want to put it on the front wheel or brake lever where it would be easy to do, but look horrible.

The air lever and throttle, at least on mine, has only nipple ends on them, both ends, so a basic nipple on the ends like goes into the carb would work easily. I'll certainly look into the cables at venhilldirect.

I was asking about heavy duty cable for the front brake as it was recommended with the drum brake to get rid of all the play possible.

Thanks,
Dave
69S

I just ordered one of the universal clutch cable kits from the Venhill store on eBay. 23 bucks with shipping. This is just what I've been looking for. I've been making cables for years, and this will work very well for my applications.

Brithit, let us know how it works out. I was looking at the kit and am not sure the barrel will work for me. My clutch cable has nipples on both ends, it looks like the barrel is installed already on one end with the kit.

Brake cable is another issue. My barrels are 9mm dia. and 11mm long for the hand lever. Nipple on the brake end is not an issue, but I have a clevis on the brake end. I hate to rip apart the old one if I could avoid it and find the correct clevis. I think I'll look around for just parts instead of semi-made up kits, but $24 for a cable is pretty good since it even has the Teflon conduit.

I'm really looking for replacements, my old ones are working, but they are 40 years old and wouldn't trust them too much.

Dave
69S

Dave,

I'll be making this one for my Trident. Always heard the teflon Venhills have a easy pull on them. I'm using a Barnett on it now. It's a monster pull, but good exercise. If it looks like something that will work on my other bikes, it will be a nice source. I don't mind having to customize both the total and free length to get it just the way I like it.

DogT said:

Brake cable is another issue. My barrels are 9mm dia. and 11mm long for the hand lever. Nipple on the brake end is not an issue, but I have a clevis on the brake end.

Dave
69S

Click to expand...

Hey Dave,

Do you think a 3/8" DIA x 1/2" barrel would work for your brake? That comes out to a little shy of 9mm DIA x 11mm, and there is a black nylon friction sleeve available for it as well that might add the material needed. We do also offer two clevises, see:

HK315: http://www.venhill.co.uk/Karting_Ma...UTCH_CABLES/HK315_HK315_CLEVIS_3-16_X_1_.html

HK316: http://www.venhill.co.uk/Karting_Ma...LUTCH_CABLES/HK316_HK316_CLEVIS_1-4_X_1_.html

Although those are shown for karting applications.

It might be possible for me to convince Venhill to produce a front brake universal kit, but I'd have to develop a product case. I've been increasingly curious if the better model for future purchases of classic bike cables is in the kit configuration, rather than trying to maintain a massive database of OE specs.

Chris

gtsun said:

I told my friend Wilson who owns a Indian restoration shop that the end came off my cable and it turns out he makes his own too so now I'm on my way to his shop to go make a new one and repair my old one as a spare. He silver solders the ends on, uses tephlon liners and nice looking outer housings so it should be nice. Oh and yes I have found if you lube everything it can be a very smooth and easy to pull clutch.

Click to expand...

A properly soft soldered nipple should never come off, the strands should be splayed into the counter sink on the outboard end of the nipple (I always use the edge of a half round file in a gentle tapping motion) then run the solder in from the inboard end (after cleaning & fluxing). the purpose of the solder is more to do with keeping the strands splayed than anything else.
I would think that silver solder is not only un necessary but I would suggest that even a low melting point silver solder is nigh on cherry red & would surely seriously damage the (strands of) the cable.
Thats just my opinion & of course I'm happy to learn.
Terry

Chris,
I saw those clevis's at the UK Venhill site. Yes, the 6mm one would probably fit the 1/4" clevis pin that I have.

There are so many different styles of brakes, handlebars and levers out there (even just with the Norton) that you could probably never make any money on a specific cable to fit. It would probably be best to make a kit that had either options or just lots of parts to cover the different setups. I was looking at the VWK002 which seems like it would probably do for both front drum brake, clutch and maybe a few other items that could be specially made. A standard Norton front brake cable is way over $55 as I remember. And you can never be sure it is the right one for the specific bike, especially like mine which is an early model and those parts are hard to come by if at all.

Are you going to offer the cable parts (ferrules, barrels, nipples, etc.) on Venhilldirect, or would we have to order from UK?

At least the Teflon lined Venhill cables always seem to come well recommended.

Terry, yes, look at the Venhill site and they have a tool to make what they call the 'birdcage' on the end of the cable to flow solder into. I'm sure a tool could easily be made to put in a vice like theirs easily without spending that amount of money. You would just have to experiment with the punch to get it right.

Dave
69S

Hi Dave,
Just looked on the Venhill site, & at 76 quid I think I'll stick with my half round file, It was the traditional way of forming the end of the cable in my family going back to Edwardian times. (plus its a little cheeper :wink: )
Interesting site though.
Terry

To make to good tool for flaring the end of bowden cable over before soldering, get a couple of pieces of 4-5mm MS plate about 50mm square, clamp them tightly together in a bench vice, select a drill size slightly smaller than cable OD, and very carefully drill down the exact middle of the 2 plates (its better to do this in a mill if possible). To finish it off, simply touch a countersink on one of end of the hole just drilled, which when the cable is clamped between the plates, will allow you to use a centre punch to form the flare required for soldering.

If you intend to make cables on a regular basis a cheap Chinese solder pot is well worth getting, and here in the UK its also possible to buy Chinese made parts to make cables, and these are about 1/5 of the price of other similar name branded items, and work just as well.

Terry,
Could you explain the Edwardian round file method? Love to hear it or better yet pictures. Does that pre-date George Washington? Not knowing my English history. I only know Robin Hood.

Carbonfibre, I looked at the off road site you mentioned, but could not find cable parts, have you a link? In general I don't mind ordering from UK, I find the prices more reasonable, but the post is getting real long in the tooth these days with our new Nazi Homeland people. I've been waiting 3 weeks for a book and 2 weeks from an RGM order now.

Dave
69S

In Venhill terminology, the cable flare is called a "birdcage". I've often instructed people to create the birdcage by simply using two pair of pliers, one each gripping the cable a small distance apart and then squeezing them together to expand the cable such that 1) the barrel can't easily slide off, and 2) there is a receptacle for solder. The excess cable can be trimmed off, leaving a smooth barrel finish.

Is this oversimplifying things?

Chris

No, but you have to figure out exactly where you want the flare. Yeah, £75 for a tool is a bit rich for a few cables. Thanks for the hint.

Dave
69S

DogT said:

No, but you have to figure out exactly where you want the flare. Yeah, £75 for a tool is a bit rich for a few cables. Thanks for the hint.

Dave
69S

Click to expand...

Most people put the flare on the end of the inner cable..........and a tool to do this can be made for next to nothing, by anyone with a drill press, a set of sharp drills, and a couple of pieces of 4-5mm MS plate. However there is no real need for any sort of tool, if you solder the cable into the nipple, leaving the end proud by around 2mm, then hold the cable between soft jaws of a vice, with the nipple resting on the jaws, use a centre punch to flare over the end of the cable. Then put the flared cable into your solder pot, pull the nipple up to flared end, and thats it job done............perfect cable, and only tool required that most people dont have is a solder pot, which can often be found on Ebay for around £25.