Barnett clutch friction plates

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J. M. Leadbeater

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So what is and who manufactures the paper friction material employed by Barnett on their Commando friction plates?? I had a friend take one to a German friction material company for testing and he reported it was a WET use paper material when as everyone knows Commando clutches were designed as DRY clutches.(Well anyone capable of calculating clutch torque capacity requirements and in theory clutch torque capacity will know which apparently is very few people!!)
 
Re: Barnett clutch riction plates

I run mine (Barnett) sopping wet with ATF, filled waaaay above the level plug. No leaks, clutch is smooth, linear, no drag, can't MAKE it slip if I try. Who knew?

P.S. Thanks again to Dynodave for his research & published clutch info. One shot, spot on.

http://atlanticgreen.com/clutchpak.htm
 
Re: Barnett clutch riction plates

I installed my Barnett plates the same way (soaked them in ATF first) a few years ago and have also had excellent results...got tired of the stock bronze plates slipping after a year or two and having to clean them
 
Re: Barnett clutch riction plates

J. M. Leadbeater said:
So what is and who manufactures the paper friction material employed by Barnett on their Commando friction plates?? I had a friend take one to a German friction material company for testing and he reported it was a WET use paper material when as everyone knows Commando clutches were designed as DRY clutches.(Well anyone capable of calculating clutch torque capacity requirements and in theory clutch torque capacity will know which apparently is very few people!!)
Click to expand...


Well Barnett does tell you to soak the plates before installation.

I always found a completely wet clutch was good, or a totally dry clutch was good.

A haft wet and gummed up clutch like in most Commandos -not so good.
 
Re: Barnett clutch riction plates

J. M. Leadbeater said:
I had a friend take one to a German friction material company for testing and he reported it was a WET use paper material
Click to expand...

Sensible. I'd hazard a guess that other replacement friction plates (Emgo, etc.) have "wet" friction material too.


J. M. Leadbeater said:
when as everyone knows Commando clutches were designed as DRY clutches.
Click to expand...

As long as the plates in question work, which they appear to do from the various accounts given on this forum, then it hardly seems to matter WHAT the clutch was originally designed AS.
 
Good point L A B..they were never designed with clutch pushrod seals, sleeved master cylinders, improved crankcase breathers or a hundred other upgrades made over the years. I like my "wet" Barnett plates much better than the bronze "dry" originals.
 
MikeG said:
I like my "wet" Barnett plates much better than the bronze "dry" originals.
Click to expand...

I'm sceptical that the bronze plates are actually "dry"? My Commando's bronze plates don't slip, at least, they didn't after I fitted the Dynodave clutch pushrod seal. :)

(Bronze plates wouldn't have been original on your '71 model)
 
A true dry clutch is completely isolated from any oil bath, so the only way a Commando clutch would be dry would be if a belt drive was fitted. I'm sure Barnett's engineers took this into account when designing friction plates for Commandos. The friction material is likely designed to work either way. dry or wet.

My bronze plates slipped when the motor got on the cam. Repeated cleanings and roughing-up with steel wool or sandpaper only temporarily alleviated the slippage. Barnett's plates for me.
 
Re: Barnett clutch riction plates

L.A.B. said:
J. M. Leadbeater said:
when as everyone knows Commando clutches were designed as DRY clutches.
Click to expand...

As long as the plates in question work, which they appear to do from the various accounts given on this forum, then it hardly seems to matter WHAT the clutch was originally designed AS.
Click to expand...

Totally! Still loving my Barnetts. My normal starting routine involves pulling the clutch lever and stabbing the kickstarter to make sure the plates haven't stuck. After sitting for the last two months, the plates didn't give the slightest indication of sticking. How do they do that? clutch-slippage-part-enter-your-number-here-t22376.html#p293044

Nathan
 
Guys there are actually two types of Barnett plates availiable. The postage stamp style and the all flat ones. I am currently using the postage stamp ones and they are working great. If you put oil on the clutch material it just wicks it away from the surface. Magic oil eraser?
 
Danno said:
A true dry clutch is completely isolated from any oil bath, so the only way a Commando clutch would be dry would be if a belt drive was fitted. I'm sure Barnett's engineers took this into account when designing friction plates for Commandos.The friction material is likely designed to work either way. dry or wet.
Click to expand...

Re: Amber text .... perhaps not true .... per my experience as below:

I installed new Barnett friction and plain plates in my Atlas basket DRY, and left the assembly with spring pressure set for some 6 months while I attended to other things on the bike. When I got around to cranking up, I found that I could not free up the clutch. With the clutch lever pulled all the way to the hand grip, I was turning over the engine as I kicked on the kickstart lever. When I disassembled the clutch, I found several plain and friction plates were positively stuck to each other, effectively locking the clutch. After applying ATF to the friction plates, the clutch freed up as one would expect, even after more months of non use.

Slick
 
Interesting issue here. A while back I was looking at some Kevlar clutch facing material for possible use. It was advertised as suitable for both dry and wet use, but I noticed that the coefficient of friction when used wet was only a third of that quoted for dry use. Barnett did a Kevlar material clutch for Nortons at one time, but I don't know if they still do. They're only a half hour away from me, so I'll stop by next time I'm near them and see if they are willing to discuss the materials they use. I'm having a little trouble with clutch slip on an 883 MK3 with Barnett plates, so I've been meaning to talk to them anyhow.

Ken
 
lcrken said:
Interesting issue here. A while back I was looking at some Kevlar clutch facing material for possible use. It was advertised as suitable for both dry and wet use, but I noticed that the coefficient of friction when used wet was only a third of that quoted for dry use. Barnett did a Kevlar material clutch for Nortons at one time, but I don't know if they still do. They're only a half hour away from me, so I'll stop by next time I'm near them and see if they are willing to discuss the materials they use. I'm having a little trouble with clutch slip on an 883 MK3 with Barnett plates, so I've been meaning to talk to them anyhow.

Ken
Click to expand...

The narrow bronze plates from RGM have cured my clutch slip problems for good. Jim
 
I´m thinking of installing a belt drive, so the ones of you who run belts and dry primary, what friction plates would you recommend? Would it work ok with the original type friction plates? I have the 4 plates early type.
Tommy
 
I use the RGM Ferodo postage stamp plates with my Norvil belt. In over 30k miles I had got through two sets of aluminum backed Surflex as the inner teeth wear badly. However, I was surprised by the weight of the Ferodos, being steel backed but they have been in for 6000 miles and work well, no slip to date.
 
J. M. Leadbeater said:
So what is and who manufactures the paper friction material employed by Barnett on their Commando friction plates?? I had a friend take one to a German friction material company for testing and he reported it was a WET use paper material when as everyone knows Commando clutches were designed as DRY clutches.(Well anyone capable of calculating clutch torque capacity requirements and in theory clutch torque capacity will know which apparently is very few people!!)
Click to expand...

Please, Help me understand the necessary calculations needed to determine clutch torque capacity. I have a TDI engine with increased torque, slipping clutch and am relying on someone else to calculate/test the uprated replacement for me. I'd enjoy the redundancy of knowing it was calced correctly. :?: :idea:
 
Metal Frictions Company in Seattle has been able to answer any questions about friction material that I have ever had. They have been in business forever. I bought one of the first Combat Norton's sold in Washington State and wore out the front disc pads before replacements were available. These quys bonded new material on my pucks in about an hour. Give 'em a call if you want a straight answer. (206) 364-8560
 
J. M. Leadbeater said:
So what is and who manufactures the paper friction material employed by Barnett on their Commando friction plates?? I had a friend take one to a German friction material company for testing and he reported it was a WET use paper material when as everyone knows Commando clutches were designed as DRY clutches.(Well anyone capable of calculating clutch torque capacity requirements and in theory clutch torque capacity will know which apparently is very few people!!)
Click to expand...
why would you worry about the material a clutch plate is made from? surely its whether it works or not! and barnet plates work wet or dry no problem cheers
 
J. M. Leadbeater said:
So what is and who manufactures the paper friction material employed by Barnett on their Commando friction plates?? I had a friend take one to a German friction material company for testing and he reported it was a WET use paper material when as everyone knows Commando clutches were designed as DRY clutches

I didn't.

My commandos have always had wet clutches.
'
I imagine the stupid designers must have specified wet clutch lining requirements by mistake. How silly of us to think they would get it right.

Just taking the piss. but!!!!!!!!!!! well!!!!! dah. Sorry Doh. How do you spell that Simpson's word.
Click to expand...
 
My commandos have always had wet clutches.
Click to expand...


um no, Commando clutches are dry, they require no lubrication to operate

however, they live inside an enclosed primary that has oil to lube the chain and it is that oil that finds its way onto clutch plates inside of the basket

in addition, some gear can can, although not designed to, find its way along the rod and into the clutch area

and it is that oil sources that contaminate the Commando dry clutch and often cause the plates to slip under load, requiring period cleaning and removal of that oil

many Commando owners converted to belt primaries, myself included, and one great benefit is that the clutch remains dry with no chain oil in the primary
and the result is a no leak primary along with no need to ever remove and clean the clutch plates of oil
 
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