Assembly of swingarm: end cap without nipple

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Paul

Paul

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I'm certainly not the first one who discovers mysterious details on an old bike. Especially motorbikes that have been reassembled show sometimes strange deviations from what is described in workshop manuals. So here is the next one.
The right end cap of the swingarm is just flat: there is no nipple nor fixing bolt, so I have no idea how the end cap is hold in place and how I should lubricate the bushes. Before drilling a hole in the end cap and trying to extract it, does anyone have an idea what could have been the reason for this alternative construction ? (maybe the bushes are replaced by bearings ??)



Assembly of swingarm: end cap without nipple
 
Looks like someone tried to seal them like the Mk IIIs. The good news is that if they don't leak they should be fine.
 
In a previous live, my bike should have been a MKIII - before its tranformation. Using the "search" function this morning, I read something about the MKIII construction but couldn't find much details and in my Haynes workshop manual, I don't find any description.
Could you please give some more explanation ? Thanks in advance. :D
 
Short version, seal it and forget it. :mrgreen:

One guess may be that Norton got tired of seeing swingarms filled with grease and went to a sealed system for the Mk III.
 
Does this mean that there is a certain amount of oil inside that last a "lifetime" ? (second life as well ? :mrgreen: )
By the way, the frame has been powdercoated so I assume the swingarm as well had to be disassembled and after that process, the swingarm should have been filled up again I assume. (not greased...). Are there any specs ?
 
Paul said:
In a previous live, my bike should have been a MKIII - before its tranformation. Using the "search" function this morning, I read something about the MKIII construction but couldn't find much details and in my Haynes workshop manual, I don't find any description.
Could you please give some more explanation ?
Click to expand...



Pre-MkIII system: http://www.oldbritts.com/1973_g14.html

MkIII system with four oil retaining felt pads and "welch plugs": http://www.oldbritts.com/1975_g16.html
 
Thanks L.A.B. that was exactly what I was looking for. Do you have also a link to the eventual maintenance instructions ? I fear that the bushes (seem to be the same) have been reassembled with grease, no oil .
 
Paul said:
Do you have also a link to the eventual maintenance instructions ?
Click to expand...



As it was supposed to be a "sealed for life" system, there aren't any maintenance instructions as such.

If any play was apparent in the assembly, then replacement was the only option.

However, your photo appears to show what looks like a machined alloy plug instead of the standard pressed sheet metal welch plug?

Is there any possibility that the assembly could have been modified in some way?

The MkIII (and maybe late MkII?) bushes [Edit: and cotter type spindle] are shorter.
 
L.A.B. said:
Paul said:
Do you have also a link to the eventual maintenance instructions ?
Click to expand...




However, your photo appears to show what looks like a machined alloy plug instead of the standard pressed sheet metal welch plug?

Is there any possibility that the assembly could have been modified in some way?

The MkIII (and maybe late MkII?) bushes are shorter.
Click to expand...

I called the previous owner of my bike this morning about this issue. He told me that it's not impossible that he turned a new plug himself but didn't remember it for sure (it's indeed a long time ago: somewhere between 6 and 20 years ago). Apparently it looks like a selfmade plug compared with those on the Old Britt site. When I told him that the bushes should be lubricated with oil, no grease, he seemed to be rather surprised. So that's the reason of my posting.
Of course I can just keep on riding with the swingarm as it is but would like to avoid any premature wear.
(who said that again: "if it ain't broken, dismantle it and look why ? ") :wink:
 
If it has lasted between "6 and 20 years", then personally I might be inclined to leave it alone, as the replacement parts are neither rare nor are they particularly expensive, as the wearing parts are the two bushes and spindle, so maybe do the job if, and when, it actually becomes necessary!

Or you could drill a small hole in each plug and fit a grease nipple (or a small screw?) so that you are able to add oil occasionally?
 
There's one detail that I didn't mention: after the reassembly the bike has never been ridden - untill now of course, since I own it. But you're right: probably I shouldn't worry. Thanks for your help !
 
I would not drill any holes. Assume that the builder put some sort of lubrication in. Just check for leaks and in a couple years check for any play. Otherwise just ride it. Being a proddy you probably can't get too many miles on it anyways before you back gives out. :mrgreen:
 
The swingarm lube should be heavy oil (140W), not grease. The MKIIA and MKIII have felt wicks inside that get saturated with oil before assembly. If you suspect that grease was used, I'd have a look inside. To do that, yes you need to drill a hole in that flat plug and extract it with a self-tapping bolt and slide hammer.

My MKII has the felt wicks and welch plugs and also the central fixing bolt through which I add oil that leaks all over everything.
 
swooshdave said:
Being a proddy you probably can't get too many miles on it anyways before you back gives out. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

I don't think so. From the first miles (or Km) I was pleasantly surprised with the comfortable riding position. (compared with my other bikes). The only problem I have is to accept it's time to go back home. :D

Anyway, I'll probably have a closer look soon. First, I'll put the previous owner to the lie detector. :wink:
 
You do not know the status inside that cradle, there could be NO lube at all.
you also want to grab the rear wheel and feel for play at the rear iso area and spindle, if a mark 3
some 34 years old now you may need to take up slack at swing arm pivot

If it was my bike, I would not trust anyone, take that endcap off and get in there right now
use a heavy oil, I use 90 gear lube and put it in after removing the top spindle fixing bolt
at the top of the cradle with a syringe

do not listen to those who tell you to just trust in the lord and leave it alone, get in there now
 
@ highdesert: I understand your reaction but I must disagree with you. The man I've bought the bike from is a very competent mechanic. He restored this bike without making any compromises as he wanted to build a perfect copy of the Production Racer he once owned in order to ride classic races. Unfortunately, because of health problems his dream never came true and eventually he decided to sell it.
So I don't doubt at all that he lubricated the swingarm but as I couldn't find out why there is no oil nipple on the right end cap - which seemed me to be standard - I started this thread. Thanks to the above-mentioned reactions I'm much better informed now.
Nevertheless, if he doesn't remember what kind of lubricant he applied, I will indeed check it.
 
I rebuilt my swingarm, which a previous owner had purchased on the internet (with the cradle). Being a MkI, I bought the requisite parts and proceeded to tear it apart, only to discover it was a MkIII swingarm. Quick run back to my Norton guy to exchange parts, and I was in business. I removed the end caps by running a self-tapping framing screw into them and prying them out. After the rebuild, I re-used the caps with the screws in place. I can re-lube the wicks directly by just removing the screws and injecting gear oil.

Perhaps you could do the same thing? Run a self-tapping screw into the cap at the center, remove the screw, inject oil, and re-insert the screw, re-sealing the cap.
 
Could this just be assembly of the old pre MK3 type but with the maintainence side with the grease nipple hidden behind the primary instead of out in the open. Sure my primary side plate looked like the one in the photo but its too long ago to be sure. Its not as if the sealing is so good it can be leak free if oil is in there :roll: .
 
I checked that Kommando but there's no place enough for a nipple and actually, my bike was originally an MKIII with a Combat engine.
 
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