Any review on recent new frame from AN ?

Like my original one is bent, I was wondering in going with another frame for a road bike. Seeley is too small for me, Rickman too stiff, Malarkey Engineering might also be too stiff with it's big tubes, Egli one brings center of gravity too high, and T140 doesn't let you have the isolastics

So instead of having mine heated on a jig, I was wondering of having a recent/decent one from AN for more or less the same price.

Did somebody get a new frame from Andover Norton? Is the head tube bent from new? Any review?

Re: New frame from AN

I've been using one for 18 months and 18,000 miles. No issues whatsoever.

Re: New frame from AN

Thanks Fullauto

"Featherlastic"!

NKN said:

Like my original one is bent, I was wondering in going with another frame for a road bike. Seeley is too small for me, Rickman too stiff, Malarkey Engineering might also be too stiff with it's big tubes, Egli one brings center of gravity too high, and T140 doesn't let you have the isolastics

So instead of having mine heated on a jig, I was wondering of having a recent/decent one from AN for more or less the same price.

Did somebody get a new frame from Andover Norton? Is the head tube bent from new? Any review?

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Not sure if you've ever ridden an Egli frame? I have and they are very nice indeed and a good fit for a taller chap. Egli Commandos are a rare sight, so it would be a nice bike and different too. I certainly wouldn't rule it out if I were you.

Fast Eddie said:

Not sure if you've ever ridden an Egli frame?

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You're right, never had been riding en Egli frame.

Fast Eddie said:

I have and they are very nice indeed and a good fit for a taller chap.

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How long was your ride?

The one you've ridden, was it a street bike or a racer one? With or without isolastics? Did it have two tubes in front of the engine like this one?



Wonder if the good vibs won't break them somewhere close to the upper weld?

There is a guy in France making some really nice ones



Kind of Egli, but only for small engines and he is not ready to change that.

Been in touch with Egli in Switzerland, they told me that most people were taking Egli Vincent frames and putting Norton engines inside. Just like this one?



Another French guy did an "Egli" frame with a Norton frame, cutting the two front tubes and welding them somewhere else. :shock:

Fast Eddie said:

Egli Commandos are a rare sight, so it would be a nice bike and different too.

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I agree, the way this frame leaves the engine express itself is just beautiful, on any bike.







BTW who already did an Egli frame for a Norton, with isolastics, in EU?

Mine was a road bike, not a racer, although I rode it on a few track days.

Unfortunately mine didn't have a Commando engine, I had to make do with a Vincent lump :roll:

A well sorted Commando engine would nice though as it would be powerful, yet a lot lighter than a Vincent, especially a Maney job with light crank, light barrels, belt drive, etc.

I don't know if anyone builds an isolastic version, you might try Colin Taylor, he builds Egli replica chassis out of stainless for any engine you like, and will sell you parts or build the whole thing or anything in between. Not sure if it's still current, but I've got an email address for him, PM me if you want it.

NKN said:

Like my original one is bent, I was wondering in going with another frame for a road bike. Seeley is too small for me, Rickman too stiff, Malarkey Engineering might also be too stiff with it's big tubes, Egli one brings center of gravity too high, and T140 doesn't let you have the isolastics

So instead of having mine heated on a jig, I was wondering of having a recent/decent one from AN for more or less the same price.

Did somebody get a new frame from Andover Norton? Is the head tube bent from new? Any review?

Click to expand...

We discussed this in PM, so you know I think your idea of an Egli frame is an excellent one, or a good new Commando style frame if you choose not to be so radical.

I will not promote the Rickman frame to you, yes I like mine, but mine isn't a road bike, and as I have said, I don't think it would suit your needs. But I do get frustrated to continually see the comment that the frame is too stiff, a comment largely from people who have never actually ridden one!

Probably the best frame I ever rode is a copy of a Seeley Mk IV, possibly better than an original Seeley. Yes, it was small for me too, probably really it was just too low for me. The Rickman has more room for me, is longer and I know in terms of racing needs it does not turn as well, but this does not mean that the Rickman is 'too stiff'!

One thing Ken (Fullauto) remarked upon was the size of my Seeley. It is about the size of a British 250. That 'stiff' feeling with the Rickman frame is probably about the steering geometry. It is not difficult to quicken the steering on most bikes by changing the fork yokes or by simply changing their position on the tubes. A stiff frame is a good frame, any flex can be off-putting at speed. Egli frames are excellent.

There is nothing wrong with a well set up Commando frame. I have mine at the point where the handling is faultless. It flicks from side to side quickly, yet is as stable as a rock. Too many people build Commandos for looks rather than no compromise handling. Because looks are cool, aren't they?

Or, a Drainpipe? But, more of a race frame than a road frame, I would guess.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QreNam7_wmY[/video]

drainpipe-commando-t7110.html

acotrel said:

One thing Ken (Fullauto) remarked upon was the size of my Seeley. It is about the size of a British 250. That 'stiff' feeling with the Rickman frame is probably about the steering geometry. It is not difficult to quicken the steering on most bikes by changing the fork yokes or by simply changing their position on the tubes. A stiff frame is a good frame, any flex can be off-putting at speed. Egli frames are excellent.

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People often tell me the Rickman is 'too stiff' with an air of authority, even though they don't ride one, but they don't tell me what they think that translates into as a handling characteristic!

And when they choose Seeley's they often choose the MKII, why? well I understand that the MKII full cradle frame is stiffer than the MKIII and MKIV!

You can make a successful Norton race bike with a wide range of frames, including the Dunstall Drainpipe, of which, I saw a couple of copies raced very successfully in the mid '70s.

I don't think any of this helps NKN who is looking to build a straight road bike he can enjoy.

Another possibility would be to put a Commando lump into a Domiracer Lowboy frame. It has all the qualities of a Featherbed with the added bonus of a significantly lower center of gravity (about 2"!). Even more compared to an Egli or Rickman frame.
In fact, I am having my 1948 racing Vinnie cut engine put into one...watch this space in about 6 months :mrgreen:

Fast Eddie said:

A well sorted Commando engine would nice though as it would be powerful, yet a lot lighter than a Vincent, especially a Maney job with light crank, light barrels, belt drive, etc.

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IMO, with what Norton gave us, a long stroke engine, pulling harder rather than reving higher is more in the spirit of those engines and I'm going to respect that.

Fast Eddie said:

I don't know if anyone builds an isolastic version, you might try Colin Taylor, he builds Egli replica chassis out of stainless for any engine you like, and will sell you parts or build the whole thing or anything in between. Not sure if it's still current, but I've got an email address for him, PM me if you want it.

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Thank's, been in touch with him recently, and even if he doing Egli's for Laverda



he told me, for a Commando that one of his customers: [...] did think about an Egli style chassis but the engine mounting points don't really lend themself to the Eg frame. and also That would be difficult (to keep the isolastics) with the Egli style of engine mountings.

And proposed me a Seeley MK4 replica with isolastics and Your height should not be a problem if we move the seat a small amount back and slightly higher.

Wonder how those mods would affect the handling? Moving my weight, 209 pounds, back and higher on the bike...

SteveA said:

[...] it does not turn as well, but this does not mean that the Rickman is 'too stiff'!

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Sorry for the too quick translation that brought this misunderstooding :wink:

gortnipper said:

Or, a Drainpipe? But, more of a race frame than a road frame, I would guess.

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Saw that vid, the way the guy looks in love with it's bike is so nice.

SteveA said:

We discussed this in PM, so you know I think your idea of an Egli frame is an excellent one

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With or without the two tubes in front of the engine? Don't you think they won't support the vibes and break near the welding, especially without the isolastics?



And if without the two front tubes, should think about a third mounting point for the engine. And perhaps a stronger head steady like this one, no?

SteveA said:

[...] or a good new Commando style frame if you choose not to be so radical.

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Fullauto said:

There is nothing wrong with a well set up Commando frame. I have mine at the point where the handling is faultless. It flicks from side to side quickly, yet is as stable as a rock.

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Even if looking for radical, what I would appreciate for sure because I also love the Egli frame, and when doing a "special" bike who is not looking to do things differently, sometimes reason brings you back on earth.

Jagbruno said:

Another possibility would be to put a Commando lump into a Domiracer Lowboy frame. It has all the qualities of a Featherbed with the added bonus of a significantly lower center of gravity (about 2"!). Even more compared to an Egli or Rickman frame.

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It might be a wonderfull idea, but just the "Low" would tend to keep me away of it boy, with my 6'46" or 1m97 :wink:

Jagbruno said:

Another possibility would be to put a Commando lump into a Domiracer Lowboy frame. It has all the qualities of a Featherbed with the added bonus of a significantly lower center of gravity (about 2"!). Even more compared to an Egli or Rickman frame.
In fact, I am having my 1948 racing Vinnie cut engine put into one...watch this space in about 6 months :mrgreen:

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Of course some form of featherbed is likely to produce a decent handling bike, but again without any of the comfort benefits of isolastics, unless you engineer those in.

Jagbruno, you may need to check that centre of gravity comment again for a Rickman with the engine installed as per the original design, that is like an Atlas, so like mine.

In the original design, developed by Rickman working with Paul Dunstall, because Dunstall wanted to improve on his Lowboy machines, which he felt he had reached the limits of the featherbed base design!

In the Rickman Atlas design the Norton engine cases and crankshaft are set very low into the Rickman frame and the front right downtube has a dent to accomodate the timing chest. To install Maney cases in mine I had to remove a significant amount of metal from the foward lower section of the extended drive side 'boss' and from the oil return drilling 'spigot'.

Rickman never built a frame to accomodate the Commando inclined engine, my frame is in fact one of the last five produced for a Norton engine by Rickman themselves and it came in '75 with Atlas plates. Post Rickman Pat French produced plates to incline the engine and many have preferred to install the motor as in a Commando, because people like the look of that I guess, but this both raises the centre of gravity and moves it back, not really helpful! And probably in this case your comment is correct.

Personally I would point out Fullauto's comments to NKN, actually the only comments that respond to his original question, and they are pretty postive about the AN option for a road bike.

In terms of cost and work, we can also say this is the most economic way to a known end point.

Without being fortunate enough to spend a lot of time riding other peoples bikes, you won't really know what to expect from any of the other frames until you have spent all of your money!

And in terms of vibration you will not know how successful your choice of balance factor is until then either, except you know you will feel more of the vibration than with a Commando!

I guess you have to decide what you really want, a really nice trick bike that fits you and handles well (Egli meets most of these needs) or a really nice comfortable road bike, AN frame meets most of these needs and overall will be most economic allowing reuse of most of the parts you already have.

My vote is for the Egli 8) , which looks like what you want to do anyway.

You need to discuss the engine mounting with the frame maker. Seeley managed without the down tubes at all on some frame designs, but I chose a Rickman in '75 because of the number of Seeley frames I saw with cracks around the rear engine mounting location! The secret surely is in how rigid the engine and gearbox is located in the engine plates? But yes, I would think using down tubes is the best Commando solution in the Egli frame.

The Laverda has the advantage of being a unit construction already designed to be a stressed member.

an inclined motor in a Rickman frame just doesnt seem right, to me it would look more like a bodge job.

SteveA said:

Personally I would point out Fullauto's comments to NKN, actually the only comments that respond to his original question, and they are pretty postive about the AN option for a road bike.

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One good point.

SteveA said:

I guess you have to decide what you really want, a really nice trick bike that fits you and handles well (Egli meets most of these needs) or a really nice comfortable road bike, AN frame meets most of these needs and overall will be most economic allowing reuse of most of the parts you already have.

My vote is for the Egli 8) , which looks like what you want to do anyway.

You need to discuss the engine mounting with the frame maker. Seeley managed without the down tubes at all on some frame designs, but I chose a Rickman in '75 because of the number of Seeley frames I saw with cracks around the rear engine mounting location! The secret surely is in how rigid the engine and gearbox is located in the engine plates? But yes, I would think using down tubes is the best Commando solution in the Egli frame.

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Thanks for your wise view, as you said I now have to choose between the nice trick bike and a really comfortable one. Like my other bike is a comfortable german bike, guess which one will be the tricky one 8)

NKN said:

SteveA said:

Personally I would point out Fullauto's comments to NKN, actually the only comments that respond to his original question, and they are pretty postive about the AN option for a road bike.

Click to expand...

One good point.

SteveA said:

I guess you have to decide what you really want, a really nice trick bike that fits you and handles well (Egli meets most of these needs) or a really nice comfortable road bike, AN frame meets most of these needs and overall will be most economic allowing reuse of most of the parts you already have.

My vote is for the Egli 8) , which looks like what you want to do anyway.

You need to discuss the engine mounting with the frame maker. Seeley managed without the down tubes at all on some frame designs, but I chose a Rickman in '75 because of the number of Seeley frames I saw with cracks around the rear engine mounting location! The secret surely is in how rigid the engine and gearbox is located in the engine plates? But yes, I would think using down tubes is the best Commando solution in the Egli frame.

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Thanks for your wise view, as you said I now have to choose between the nice trick bike and a really comfortable one. Like my other bike is a comfortable german bike, guess which one will be the tricky one 8)

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I've got a German bike for its Germannese (engineering, reliability and comfort) and hope to have another Egli on the road next summer. My Commando sits somewhere in between the two (metaphorically and literally). If you build an Egli too, we'll have to pressure Jerry into letting us (You, Glen, me... anyone else?) have an Egli page !!

Salut NKN and All,

Whatever the frame you'll end up with and if your engine is rigidly mounted in that frame, Jim Schmidt's pistons and rods are an excellent way to cope with a potential vibrations issue (not talking about additional power and exciting power curve).

That"s what I use in my bike (750 Commando engine in Featherbed chassis).

Laurent