Another counterfeit product: Clock holder 06-4144

I called out eBay seller "MC Mechanics" for selling counterfeit clock holders. Of course he didn't appreciate my action.
Not a critical part, this guy sells numerous parts for Norton and other British bikes which may be. More importantly, these sellers destroy the legitimate trade.

Buyers beware! Although claimed to be genuine items, the parts may be fake products and it was in this case.

Sadly, eBay doesn't care.

Addendum: Wonders never cease to happen! Vendor listened to criticism (maybe AN took action) and revised their listing. They no longer claim the part to be OEM and of "Norton" origin.
So, a better marketplace and honesty resulted. We are satisfied.

- Knut

eBay really doesn't care about fake products. I ordered high current power transistors in TO-3 cases with a Motorola number on them and inside were tiny little signal transistors that would pass a simple low current test that showed they were actually transistors, but try to switch over 100 mA and they fried. I got a refund, but the ad stayed up no matter how much I complained it was fraud. Nothing is too cheap to be faked apparently.

the desrciption reads - "This listing is for a NEW, Made In England, "clock", instrument, gauge holder as fitted to all Norton 850 Commandos produced from 1973 to 1977. Designed to hold the tachometer or the speedometer. "

I didn't see OEM or "Original" in the description.

Was it new? Was it made in England? no "fraud" I can see. A misundersatanding on your part, sure. But not fraud.

I find the company to be honest, and very forthcoming.

trappnman said:

the desrciption reads - "This listing is for a NEW, Made In England, "clock", instrument, gauge holder as fitted to all Norton 850 Commandos produced from 1973 to 1977. Designed to hold the tachometer or the speedometer. "

I didn't see OEM or "Original" in the description.

Was it new? Was it made in England? no "fraud" I can see. A misundersatanding on your part, sure. But not fraud.

I find the company to be honest, and very forthcoming.

Click to expand...

Fraud? I never accused them of committing fraud.
See my new remark above.

- Knut

To try and clarify -
Original can only be used to described the parts ACTUALLY fitted to the vehicle when it left the factory irrespective who made them for the manufacturer of the vehicle.
If you replace an item like the air filter even if it has the vehicle logo then the new part is not original - even if it is made by the manufacturer of the vehicle or the subcontractor that made them in the first place. It is a factory approved replacement part, but you can't call it original.
OEM - has nothing to do with the parts being original, it just states that it is the original company that made the parts supplied to the factory when the vehicle was built new, so the part they made and fitted on the new vehicle is an original part, if you replace it with one from the same batch and same supplier 2 years later it is factory approved replacement part.

If you look at the spares boxes for vehicles made these days then the above will make sense. Strange I know, and it took sometime to get my head around it, but I wonder how I know that. For those in the US then this may pass you by but it's worth watching, the Only Fools and Horses series says it all. Trigger was proud that he owned his broom 'Triggers broom' for decades but it was not original as all the parts had been replaced numerous times, the original parts were long gone.

NOS is similarly confusing IMO.

When we read NOS we (myself included) tend to think it must be an original factory approved part from back in the day.

But actually, all it means is New Old Stock, ie the part is unused, but may be many years old. And 50 years after these bikes stopped being produced provides LOTS of opportunity for many pattern parts that have been on the shelf gathering dust to be quite correctly called NEW OLD StOCK parts.

I have seen NORS used. New Old Replacement Stock. I take it means reproduction to the original drawings so to speak.
NOS means factory made (or outsourced by the factory) parts. Not pattern parts.

Onder said:

I have seen NORS used. New Old Replacement Stock. I take it means reproduction to the original drawings so to speak.
NOS means factory made (or outsourced by the factory) parts. Not pattern parts.

Click to expand...

That’s your definition of NOS.

Where does it state that it is any kind of ‘official’ definition ?

Well in the old car world that is what it meant when I was in that world.
Just how I remember it.

Is this the 'SPEEDO/TACHO MOUNTING BRACKET' Andover sells, PN 03.3063? I remember searching for this part, which was missing for my N15 on eBay and elsewhere, and finding ridiculous prices for what seemed like a simple bracket. I eventually found Andover. OK, cool, it's US $30, that's reasonable. I had never dealt with Andover, being new to Norton, I was searching all over. I have purchased so much from them since, and never a problem with shipping, cost, quality etc. I've realized how many sellers mark up stuff that they get from Andover, perhaps others (RGM? I have had good deals w/them too).

I'm not interested, or inclined to argue over stuff, this is just a hobby and a pastime, and I enjoy it a lot. I learned a good lesson on this exact part. Go with Andover. It's especially good in the US since we pay no VAT, and if careful, shipping's about what VAT would be. Bargain.

gpzkat said:

Is this the 'SPEEDO/TACHO MOUNTING BRACKET' Andover sells, PN 03.3063? I remember searching for this part, which was missing for my N15 on eBay and elsewhere, and finding ridiculous prices for what seemed like a simple bracket. I eventually found Andover. OK, cool, it's US $30, that's reasonable. I had never dealt with Andover, being new to Norton, I was searching all over. I have purchased so much from them since, and never a problem with shipping, cost, quality etc. I've realized how many sellers mark up stuff that they get from Andover, perhaps others (RGM? I have had good deals w/them too).

I'm not interested, or inclined to argue over stuff, this is just a hobby and a pastime, and I enjoy it a lot. I learned a good lesson on this exact part. Go with Andover. It's especially good in the US since we pay no VAT, and if careful, shipping's about what VAT would be. Bargain.

Click to expand...

This thread started about a Commando part: 06.4144 which AN lists at $96.53. Order that today and it will cost:

$96.53
$26.91 UPS Standard
-------
122.44 Before Tariff and fees

You will be charged 25% tariff and over $100 Brokerage/customs fees. If you know how to dispute it, you can get it down to $14 Brokerage Fee and $12 "pre-paid fee"; and possibly, the duty down to 10%. Just takes an email and 2-3 hours on the phone.

So, between $52 and $350 in tariff and fees.

Finding someone in the US with that part already in stock will cost much less! The last one I sold cost me $101.47 delivered to me I sold it for $108.57 + 8.65 shipping so $117.22 delivered in the US.

My recent AN order was $748+$52 shipping and UPS tried to get me to pay $396 in duties and fees. I disputed and got the duties and fees down to $100.80

Yes, there are sellers who mark up much more. If I had any sense I would too. I have over $70k of AN parts in stock, and if lucky when I die that may be down to $60k. There is a lot to providing the service that you don't see. For instance, the cost of a shipping box is about $1.00 in bulk. I could have shipped using a medium flat-rate box (free box) but the shipping would have been $18.65 retail.

Prior to August 29, 2025 your would about break even ordering direct from AN on small orders. On larger orders, not likely. Now, very unlikely.

No, I'm sold out of that part.

marshg246 said:

This thread started about a Commando part: 06.4144 which AN lists at $96.53. Order that today and it will cost:

Prior to August 29, 2025 your would about break even ordering direct from AN on small orders. On larger orders, not likely. Now, very unlikely.

Click to expand...

Got it. And I missed it in the title... ugh. I should clarify 'mark stuff up' - when I wrote that, I was thinking about some wildly optimistic prices I've seen on eBay, new or used. The established US sellers I've dealt with have been fine, no complaints on markup.

I've used AN for orders of many small items (fasteners, rubber bits, etc), and they always had what I needed in stock. Shipping usually took less than a week to CA, and overall, the price was less for the lot than getting it from the US or Canada, for that matter. Specific purchases like that made sense then, but those days are going, going, poof, gone it seems - you are spot on. I've already found on the Commando I fixed up, vendors with stock in the US are the ones with the best deals.