Amal MKII jetting

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milfordite

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Hello all,
I'm going to run a set of 32mm MKII's on my 850 and was wondering if anyone has done so, and what your jetting was. Just some idea where to start! The engine is at 9 1/2 to 1 compression, with one of Jim Comstock's big valve heads and a JS2 camshaft from Jim Schmidt. Std. peashooters for now.
Thanks, Bill
 
Hello all,
I'm going to run a set of 32mm MKII's on my 850 and was wondering if anyone has done so, and what your jetting was. Just some idea where to start! The engine is at 9 1/2 to 1 compression, with one of Jim Comstock's big valve heads and a JS2 camshaft from Jim Schmidt. Std. peashooters for now.
Thanks, Bill
Hi Bill, FWIW - 750 Combat, PW3, Paton, genuine Dunstalls - 106 needle jet, needle on 3rd ring of 5 , 260 mains, 3 1/2 cutaway slides.
may help.
 
Hello all,
I'm going to run a set of 32mm MKII's on my 850 and was wondering if anyone has done so, and what your jetting was. Just some idea where to start! The engine is at 9 1/2 to 1 compression, with one of Jim Comstock's big valve heads and a JS2 camshaft from Jim Schmidt. Std. peashooters for now.
Thanks, Bill
I'm not, but would be interesting to know where you wind up.
 
I'm going to run a set of 32mm MKII's on my 850 and was wondering if anyone has done so, and what your jetting was.
I listened to Norvil, who discouraged me from trying a set of MkII on my Mk3. They claimed a Commando can't be made to run properly with these carbs. Apparently a lot of people have fettled a lot without much success, and I've never heard of anyone prasing the combination. Perhaps you will break the code? Do you have access to a dynamometer and an oximeter? I wish you good luck! Please share your experience.
 
The trouble with MK2 carbs is they have some irregularities in design, partially caused by Meriden Triumph needimg to beat emission rules.

Late T140 carbs had odd needle jets and needles, and an odd air jet bushing to accommodate / compensate for this. All that needs throwing away and standard needles and standard 106 needle jets fitting. And that pilot air bush needs removing and throwing over the nearest hedge.

If you try fitting standard needles and needle jets but still have that pilot air bush fitted, you will never get the carburation correct. I know this cos I tried it and it drove me insane! It was John Healeys writings on this that saved the day for me.

With standard needles and jets, and the pilot air bush removed, the carbs then work very much like a mk 1 but with a better cold start circuit. I would therefore see no reason they wouldn’t work well on a Commando.

I posted about my learnings with this topic on the Triumph pages a while ago.
 
And that pilot air bush needs removing and throwing over the nearest hedge.
I'm not too sure about that, I've had Mk2 Amals fitted to my 850 for 25 years and they've not given me much complaint.
By removing the air jet the depression in the primary mixing chamber will weaken, the needle jet and main jet will have to be increased to compensate. 2 stroke versions of the MK2 have a smaller air jet fitted to increase the depression.
 
I'm not too sure about that, I've had Mk2 Amals fitted to my 850 for 25 years and they've not given me much complaint.
By removing the air jet the depression in the primary mixing chamber will weaken, the needle jet and main jet will have to be increased to compensate. 2 stroke versions of the MK2 have a smaller air jet fitted to increase the depression.
AFAIK standard 4 stroke needle jets and needles are designed to run correctly without the pilot air bushing. Note we are NOT taking about the pilot jet.

The pilot air bushing was restrictive on late T140 carbs precisely for the reason you state, and was done because the needle and needle jet was unusually lean for emission purposes.

I’ll try and find Mr Healeys notes on this later.
 
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Interesting, I'd like to see those notes. I picked up the carbs a couple of years ago, this will be the first time for them. In the meantime, I installed a single 36mm Mikuni on a flowed manifold just to get it running and broken in while I go through the Amals. I tried out the Mikuni on an early version of my race bike years ago before I built a good motor. I ran 36mm Dellorto's on that which worked really well.
 
As posted by LAB in this thread:



John Healy
"The MKII carbs came with two basic set-ups for T140s:
European (non-EPA)
124/026 #15 pilot jet
124/012 #35 choke jet
2928/122 .106 needle jet
2928/030 #3 1/2 slide (leaner than US equivelent)
2622/124 2A1 needle
No air jet fitted

US EPA
124/026 #25 pilot jet
124/026 #50 choke jet
2928/031 .105 (special stainless steel)
2926/060 #3 slide
2928/030 2C3 needle
An air jet was fitted to the central air inlet on US EPA models."
 
That's a lot to digest! 😄 I need to get a parts order together, after I get them apart and see what's there.
Thanks for the help!
 
If you do not know how to jet a carburetor, you will have diffuculty with any you might choose. Usually when you buy carbs, the slide cutaways and low running jets will be OK. Your main problem will be the needle jets and the needle tapers. With Commandos, there are two needle jet sizes for petrol. I think they 0.106 inch and 0,107 inch. Without making your own needle jets, it is difficult to get sizes in between those two. And thectaper on the needles compensates for loss of vacuum as you open the throttle. Jetting for petrol is much more difficult than jetting for methanol, so I alwaus race using the latter. But petrol can be just as good. It is just a bit more difficult.
When you have your carbs together and fitted with the 0.106 needle jet - start with the needle clips in the centre position. When you start the motor and open the throttle, you might get a miss. If that happens, raise the needles one notch at a time until the miss disappears. If you lower the needles one notch, you should get the miss again. With any taper needle, the bike will be rideable. Getting it better is a matter of trial and error. Slower taper needles require more throttle control, but the bike will be faster. For main jets, just use the biggest recommended.
The size of the carburetor does not change things much.
Do not continue to ride your bike if it has a miss - stop and fix it. A miss is usually due to lean, and that can mean burned pistons and valves.
This stuff about certain sice carburetors not working might mean that some people do not know how to jet carbs systematically.
Through the 1970s, every new model of Japanese motorcyle had different needles and needle jets.
Once of the main sources of the speed of Japanese motorcycles is probably their mid-range jetting.
Whrn I had old British road bikes, I did not even try raising and lowering the needle in the carb. I used to hot them up and just believed the carburation woulf be OK.
 
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Bigger ports mean more loss of vacuum as you open the throttle and less torque, so bigger carbs need to be futted without increasing the size of the inlet port, other than a slow taper, just at the beginning.
 

Note we are NOT taking about the pilot jet.
I’ll try and find Mr Healeys notes on this later.
I know, I'm referring to the bush in the inlet mouth of the carb that restricts the air to the chamber above the needle jet, 3.5 for 4 strokes and 2.5 for 2 strokes.
I would appreciate a read of Mr Healy's notes.
Regards,
Dave
 
You should not have much difficulty with pilot jets and idle settings, or getting the main jets right. The main difficulty is usually with the needles and needle jets. A Mk2 Amal is very similasr to a VM MIkuni of the same size, and the Mikuni needle jets and needles will fit the Amal carb. If you start with the 0.106 needle jets, you should be able to induce a miss by lowering the needles, then raise them until the miss disappears. If you are slightly too rich on the needles, the motor will be sluggish, but the bike will still perform OK. To get best performance, try using slower taper needles If you put Mikuni and Amal needles side by side, you can see where the taper begins. The needles in almost all carbs are the same diameter at the parallel part. The differences are in the rate of taper. Where the taper begins depends on the size of the carb.
If your motor always performs better in cold weather, you can probably use slower taper needles, and it will be better at other times.
The rate of taper depends on how the bike is to be used and the size of the inlet ports. A MX bike will use quicker taper needles than a road race bike, because you use the throttle in a different way.
It is a choice between two things. If you open the throttle fast with quick taper needles, the response is a mixture which richens quicker but you have more air. If you open it slow with slow taper needles the mixture stays leaner, but you have to feed the throttle on. The latter situation gives better performance.
Mikuni needles and needle jets give better performance in Mk2 Amals. But if I was in your shoes, I would buy a few 0.106 Amal Needle jets and drill them using a combination of metric and number drills, to get the intermediate sizes in between 0.106 and 0.107 inch. When I do it, I use a hand drill and only take one slow cut to increase the jet size. You need to convert between metric and inch.
Normal carbs are at their limit with petrol. Fuel injection and a programmable ignition system would probably be much better.
When you jet for petrol, it is twice as critical as when you jet for methanol. With my carbs using methanol, the difference in needle jet size between fast and slow is half a thou of an inch. For you using petrol, it will be half that.
When you raise and lower the needles, you change the internal diameter of the jet in steps of one-fifth of any increase you have made by drilling. The correct position of the needles is one notch away from the miss, when you ride the bike. When you get it right, it makes a big difference. Normally when you ride a bike, you do not suspect when it can be faster, until it becomes faster. It is the same with raising and lowering the overall gearing. You do not know what will happen until you try it. A torque increase only becomes evident when you raise the gearing.
The Commando engine is strange - the motor always tends to spin up at the same rate regardless of the gearing. Lowering the gearing does not usually give better acceleration, as it does with most other bikes.
 
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