Alton starter, Norton switchgear issue. (2020)

peter12 · Aug 31, 2020

I have an Alton starter fitted for 3 years. I have used the spare button for the starter and a month or so ago It started to develop flat battery type symptoms. Also there was a delay from pressing button till it turned the motor.
I fitted a new battery but nothing changed.
I went through the wiring with a fine tooth comb and changed it to the horn switch. Mostly it works fine but yesterday halfway through a 300 mile ride it did the same. It was exactly as if the battery was not charging.
Kicked the bike to start no problem
After a lunch break the starter worked fine.
If I jump the starter solenoid positive (input) directly to the battery I have no issues.
I’m tempted to buy new switchgear but wondered what people’s thoughts were before another expense.
I’ve thoroughly cleaned the switchgear out.

kommando · Aug 31, 2020

Sounds like the solenoid is on the way out as jumpering it worked.

peter12 · Aug 31, 2020

No, sorry, jumping to the solenoid live, not the starter.

MexicoMike · Aug 31, 2020

Concur with K! It could have been the Lucas switch but since you've cleaned that/checked the wiring, that shouldn't be the problem. FWIW, my Alton has been using the Norton "spare" button since I installed the Alton in 12 so the switch itself is perfectly capable if it is in good condition and been cleaned in the last 20 years or so!

Just read your added post - if you are bypassing the Lucas switch, then it clearly IS the switch or the wiring/connections associated with it.

peter12 · Aug 31, 2020

Thanks Mike, i have bought an aftermarket switch to try temporarily but the wires are so thin I’m not sure about using it! Might just bite the bullet and buy the switchgear.

Fullauto · Aug 31, 2020

Do you have a relay fitted to the staqrter circuit to give it an easier time?

peter12 · Aug 31, 2020

No, have read about but not sure of benefits or what type to source.

peter12 · Aug 31, 2020

Ok, next question, recommendation re a suitable relay for the starter!

kommando · Aug 31, 2020

The solenoid is the relay.

Fullauto · Aug 31, 2020

kommando said:
The solenoid is the relay.

No. The relay merely switches the power through to the starter. This means you do not have the full power going through your switch, which, when used continuously may melt your switch,

ntst8 · Aug 31, 2020

The Alton kit comes with a relay, item 12 in the "kit parts" layout in the installation manual. Presumably that is what is being referred to as a solenoid?

peter12 · Aug 31, 2020

Yes, confused me, if you google starter relay most pictures that come up are actually the solenoid.
Might try a relay but don’t really know what to look for.

kommando · Aug 31, 2020

A solenoid is a relay, its just the specialisation to carry the high current for a starter means it is a particular type of relay and hence the different name in an automotive application. If you want an alternative that is recommended for bikes where the original solenoid is not up to the job then go for the Yamaha 150A solenoid/relay but beware Chinese knock offs labelled as 150A but not capable of 150A.

Aprilia RST1000 Futura | Starter solenoid

Starter solenoid (starter relay) guide for your Aprilia RST 1000 Futura.

www.apriliafutura.co.uk

When the stock (50 Amp) solenoid failed on my 2001-built Futura after trying to start the bike on a less than fully charged battery, I replaced it with the 150 Amp Aprilia part – Part No 8112927. The stock one looks like the one in the picture, while the replacement doesn’t have the all enclosing rubber boot.

It’s actually a Hitachi item with the serial number MS5D – 191 and is also used by several other bike manufacturers at a cheaper price than what Aprilia want for it. The Yamaha part is available under part number 3UF-81940-00-00.

cliffa · Aug 31, 2020

"If I jump the starter solenoid positive (input) directly to the battery I have no issues".

Peter, do you mean the battery to the starter side of the solenoid? If so what happens if you use something hefty to short the two contacts on it?

The only issue I've had with my Alton was the low current wire from the handlebar switch broke off at the solenoid. Luckily there was enough for me to solder it back on then I used some silicone or Araldite to hold the wire. I would check that and the ground connection. If they are all good then it sounds like you need a new Solenoid.

Cheers,

cliffa.

peter12 · Aug 31, 2020

Probably not made myself clear. The issue is not the solenoid as it works perfectly when I by pass the switch by touching the small black lead used to connect to switch directly to the battery. I suspect it’s the switch so will either try an intermediate relay or change the switchgear.

maylar · Aug 31, 2020

Anybody know how much current the Alton starter solenoid coil takes? The handlebar switches should be capable of a couple amps if the wiring is sound. Having both the spare switch and the horn switch fail is not normal.

cliffa · Aug 31, 2020

maylar said:
Anybody know how much current the Alton starter solenoid coil takes? The handlebar switches should be capable of a couple amps if the wiring is sound. Having both the spare switch and the horn switch fail is not normal.

Can't be very much. I'm using the standard Lucas switch with zero issues.

Peter, maybe you have a poor connection to the handlebar switch ?

maylar · Aug 31, 2020

cliffa said:
Peter, maybe you have a poor connection to the handlebar switch ?

Maybe a loose connection under the tank at the white wire that feeds both switch clusters, as he said he repurposed the horn button which is on the other switch cluster.

cliffa · Aug 31, 2020

Broken / corroded bullet tube?

maylar · Aug 31, 2020

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Though it wouldn't explain why the horn button worked for a while and now doesn't.

Alton starter, Norton switchgear issue. (2020)

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