Alton Norton Commando Electric Start: Battery (2014)

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blythmags

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Hi all

I am awaiting delivery of an Alton Electric Start kit for fitting to my Commando, and would like some advice with regards to the battery requirements for this kit. I understand from a short email reply from Alton, that they state that the battery should be a 18AH variant, but I have just recently put a brand new 16.5 AH gel battery on my Commando and wondered whether i could get away with using this rather than change the battery yet again ?. The battery I fitted is a MOTOBAT Glass Mat Sealed Battery (MBTX14AU)
· Battery Capacity: 16.5 Ah
· CCA (-18 deg. C): 190 A)

I'm not getting much of a reply from Alton when I have posed this question to them unfortunately.

Many thanks for your advice everyone.... :)

Best wishes

John
 
I don't have an Alton starter but that same battery starts my Mk.111 with original starter motor with ease.
sam
 
blythmags said:
The battery I fitted is a MOTOBAT Glass Mat Sealed Battery (MBTX14AU)
· Battery Capacity: 16.5 Ah
· CCA (-18 deg. C): 190 A)
Click to expand...

A 16.5AH 190CCA AGM battery should be more than adequate, even a 14AH would be enough.
 
L.A.B. said:
blythmags said:
The battery I fitted is a MOTOBAT Glass Mat Sealed Battery (MBTX14AU)
· Battery Capacity: 16.5 Ah
· CCA (-18 deg. C): 190 A)
Click to expand...

A 16.5AH 190CCA AGM battery should be more than adequate, even a 14AH would be enough.
Click to expand...

That's great.....many thanks..... :)
 
L.A.B. said:
blythmags said:
The battery I fitted is a MOTOBAT Glass Mat Sealed Battery (MBTX14AU)
· Battery Capacity: 16.5 Ah
· CCA (-18 deg. C): 190 A)
Click to expand...

A 16.5AH 190CCA AGM battery should be more than adequate, even a 14AH would be enough.
Click to expand...

Hi L.A.B..
I've just received an email from Alton who are stating that a battery with 270CCA should be used. Is Alton possibly being over cautious ?
A commando member on Facebook has also stated that he is using a 14AH battery with his Alton kit, so I'm in a state of confusion as to what to do ? :(
Cheers
John
 
blythmags said:
I've just received an email from Alton who are stating that a battery with 270CCA should be used. Is Alton possibly being over cautious ?
Click to expand...

I think they probably are a bit, knowing that a 14AH in good condition will spin over my 850 MkIII (with its Prestolite starter) without any trouble.



blythmags said:
A commando member on Facebook has also stated that he is using a 14AH battery with his Alton kit, so I'm in a state of confusion as to what to do
Click to expand...

The thing is, as you've recently bought the 16.5AH Motobatt then it would make sense (to me at least) to try it first, and if found to be lacking in CCA (which I seriously doubt) then fit the bigger battery, but it seems wasteful to replace what is probably a perfectly adequate battery without trying it-unless of course you have another bike you can use it on?
 
If someone with an Alton starter and an Alton recommended battery could put an Ampmeter on it during a "cold" start you might have a baseline number to see what it draws? Not a perfect solution, might be a starting point.
 
THe 18 Shorai will spin an Alton starter/850 Commando as fast as you could ever want a starter to spin. So worrying about the actual amp draw seems unnecessary other than as a mental exercise. If you purchase an Alton, the 18 shorai is a perfect compliment if you want that type of battery. Being concerned about the ACTUAL AH capacity of a Shorai as opposed to a flooded battery is also, of no concern. The battery will spin the heck out of the Alton starter...

As I stated earlier, with my wife's '12 BMW's oem battery disconnected and her bike and mine both sitting for over 4 months, the Shorai/Alton spun as if the better had been charged yesterday; the BMW, after connecting the batt, was decidedly reluctant though it did start the bike.

I have no stock in Shorai or Alton but the Shorai 18 and the Alton E-start seem made for each other on the Commando.
 
Deets55 said:
If someone with an Alton starter and an Alton recommended battery could put an Ampmeter on it during a "cold" start you might have a baseline number to see what it draws? Not a perfect solution, might be a starting point.
Click to expand...

Good Idea.
I made a current shunt for measuring the current of the prestolite 2 brush, converted 4 brush along with my 06-4791B starter. Using the correct test equipment you can measure initial "surge" along with running current.
The NENO club secretary has an alton on his 850. I will see if I can get him to bring his bike to the (NENO) North Shore Tech Session this saturday and take the measurements.
Keep in mind that I was able to start my MKIII with my starter on the small atlas battery, the regular commando battery, as well as the Norton specified MKIII Yuausa battery. If you actually need such a huge battery as they claim, then you better be careful about what ignition you use.
I'll report back if I can get some data.
 
Dave,
If it is convienent I would like to see your numbers on 2 brush vs 4 brush. I am using a 2 brush now and have just put together a case with 4 brushes. I hate to take anything apart right now because my bike is running so well I don't want to touch a thing ( just jinxed myself). 2 brush starts the bike fine just happen to get all the parts cheap.
Thanks,
Pete
 
dynodave said:
Deets55 said:
If someone with an Alton starter and an Alton recommended battery could put an Ampmeter on it during a "cold" start you might have a baseline number to see what it draws? Not a perfect solution, might be a starting point.
Click to expand...

Good Idea.
I made a current shunt for measuring the current of the prestolite 2 brush, converted 4 brush along with my 06-4791B starter. Using the correct test equipment you can measure initial "surge" along with running current.
The NENO club secretary has an alton on his 850. I will see if I can get him to bring his bike to the (NENO) North Shore Tech Session this saturday and take the measurements.
Keep in mind that I was able to start my MKIII with my starter on the small atlas battery, the regular commando battery, as well as the Norton specified MKIII Yuausa battery. If you actually need such a huge battery as they claim, then you better be careful about what ignition you use.
I'll report back if I can get some data.
Click to expand...

Hi Dave
That's great....many thanks
It's no problem fitting a more powerful battery ( other than the cost, as I've only recently bought my current battery), but there is a problem in the size of the 18AH batteries in that they won't fit on a Commando unless you grind one of the edges of the battery cage down, which I'd rather not do if there was another option. There seems to be a swell of opinion that my current 16.5AH ( 210CCA) battery will suffice, but I'd be very interested in hearing your feedback as Alton are definitely recommending a 18AH ( 270 CCA) battery.
Thanks again
Best wishes
John
 
Deets55 said:
Dave,
If it is convenient I would like to see your numbers on 2 brush vs 4 brush. I am using a 2 brush now and have just put together a case with 4 brushes. I hate to take anything apart right now because my bike is running so well I don't want to touch a thing ( just jinxed myself). 2 brush starts the bike fine just happen to get all the parts cheap.
Thanks,
Pete
Click to expand...

Not only is it convenient, it's on my website as part of the sales pitch for my starter. It's been there for most of 10 years.
Site: http://atlanticgreen.com/
Store: http://atlanticgreen.com/store.htm
Starter: http://atlanticgreen.com/starter.htm
Pix: http://atlanticgreen.com/images/dcp734.jpg
 
The 18 A-H battery YTX20CH-BS will fit into the Mk3 battery caddy with only a slight "modification"; the front lip needs to be bent downward to allow the battery to be slipped in. Otherwise, it fits fine.
 
Dave,
Thanks for the information. I must admit I was surprised by the numbers. I can't believe I missed that seeing how many times I frequented you site when I was researching clutch stack height. Glad there are guys like you who spend a lot of time doing testing and make it easily available.
Pete
 
blythmags said:
L.A.B. said:
blythmags said:
The battery I fitted is a MOTOBAT Glass Mat Sealed Battery (MBTX14AU)
· Battery Capacity: 16.5 Ah
· CCA (-18 deg. C): 190 A)
Click to expand...

A 16.5AH 190CCA AGM battery should be more than adequate, even a 14AH would be enough.
Click to expand...

That's great.....many thanks..... :)
Click to expand...

John

My starter was dealer fitted with an H & C ,Y T X 16 BX 14Ah and it started well until the starter broke.

Possibly an Email to Beverly suggesting using your original battery and how would that affect your warranty and if you get the ok then you are quids in.

J
Page 74 MCN action shot.
 
Alton starter on 850 draws 208 amps surge/stall and about 60amps while spinning. :mrgreen:
 
dynodave said:
Alton starter on 850 draws 208 amps surge/stall and about 60amps while spinning. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Hi Dave
Apologies for my ignorance, but does this mean that my battery characteristics will suffice ?
Cheers mate
Best wishes
John
 
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