Alternatives to Diamondyze coating in the UK...

Gents,

I contacted Diamondyze UK today to get my 4 forged Pistons treated by them. Bad news though, they have a big backlog at present.

Does anyone know of an alternative provider of this service in the UK?

You are a brave man Nigel.
Wasn't it a coating of some sort that came loose and graunched your beautiful, expensive motor at about 2k miles from rebuild?
A good friend has an all original 1973 850 with 128,000 miles on the odometer, all put on by him, never been rebuilt, other than head off for a valve redo.
Who needs coatings?
Sorry, just doing the devils advocate thing here.

Glen

worntorn said:

You are a brave man Nigel.
Wasn't it a coating of some sort that came loose and graunched your beautiful, expensive motor at about 2k miles from rebuild?
A good friend has an all original 1973 850 with 128,000 miles on the odometer, all put on by him, never been rebuilt, other than head off for a valve redo.
Who needs coatings?
Sorry, just doing the devils advocate thing here.

Glen

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Well kinda...

The coating that came off was a ceramic coating. Seems to me that like any coating, it's at the mercy of the coater! I think that's what went wrong with mine.

Diamondyze is an anodyzing, so it's a surface treatment and not a coating that can come off.

Hats off to your mate with 128,000 miles Glen, but he didn't do those with a 10.5:1 920cc motor and he certainly didn't spend much time in the upper echelons of the Rev range.

Different horses for different courses innit?!

Not in UK but:

I've been interested in a coating by "line2line"

Their coating is more durable than most black skirt coating you see and they offer several hardnesses. Their coating gives you a tight skirt clearance that requires a break in. When tight there is no room for oil and so the coating will wear off until there is enough clearance for oil and then the wear is supposed to stop (basically). Even if the initial clearance is so tight that the motor is "pulled down" in RPM when running - there is no seizure type skirt damage (unless you get crazy). New skirts collapse right away and the fresh high spots on your cross hatch bore surface will polish off giving you more clearance. The line2line coating gets you through this stage and after a 1/2 hour or hour of breakin there will still be coating on the skirts and now the clearance will be tighter than it would have been with bare aluminum - quieter running and they say their customers are getting double the piston life. A lot of his sounds like hype of course but you can make your own mind and test it yourself. Bear in mind that the Nort is aircooled and its pistons will require and thinner coating and more clearance than what they recommend for water cooled engines.

see

https://www.line2linecoatings.com/

and

https://www.facebook.com/Line2LineCoatings/

Disclaimer - I've only researched this coating so far but will be using it in a current race motor build along with carbide impregnated cylinders for the best in piston/bore longevity.

Seeing repeatedly used phrases like "Magic Carpet of Oil" does leave me a bit sceptical, but their website "data" and images definitely pique my interest. It would appear to fall into the same category as the sacrificial coating applied to piston rings to assist in quick seating during break-in. I'd be very interested in your results, assuming you use their coating on your next build. Keep us posted!

Nathan

Nater_Potater said:

Seeing repeatedly used phrases like "Magic Carpet of Oil" does leave me a bit sceptical, but their website "data" and images definitely pique my interest. It would appear to fall into the same category as the sacrificial coating applied to piston rings to assist in quick seating during break-in. I'd be very interested in your results, assuming you use their coating on your next build. Keep us posted!

Nathan

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Yes - My first impression was that this was just another sacrificial coating. I've talked to them and what they have is supposed to be much longer lasting. They also have an "Armor coat" for worn pistons that used to build up the skirts and replace lost aluminum - but its in a different category and not designed to "wear in". Only testing will determine one way or the other and I'm leaning toward trying it on a high RPM 500 short stroke twin Nort. It will be a race season before get any feedback.

Not sure why you are pissing around. Pistons are cheap. when you need to re-ring the engine , just buy new piston kits. No need to piss around with crazy ideas.?????????????????

kerinorton said:

Not sure why you are pissing around. Pistons are cheap. when you need to re-ring the engine , just buy new piston kits. No need to piss around with crazy ideas.?????????????????

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That's great info thanks...

I require 81mm Pistons for a 920, raised crowns for high comp, JS motorsport design, so forged and lighter than stock 750 Pistons, gudgeon pins are the smaller DLC type, crown thicker than stock JSM spec to allow a 66mm diameter 0.040" dish machined into the crown to keep a tight squish and target CR of 10.5:1. See pic below.

Please just let me know where I can get these 'cheap' and I'll order some straight away...

I see JE offers a piston coating that is of the anodyze variety, however it does add .001" to the piston diameter. Does this mean there is a layer that can flake off and cause harm?
All of the coating companies claim great things for their products and encourage us to coat nearly every part of the bike with this miracle layer. Reading their spiel is a lot like watching late night TV infomercials for miracle flat stomach/ab builder devices.
It would be nice to know if the mainstream motorcycle manufacturers use coatings on their works GP race bikes.

I don't think Triumph coated the pistons of my Daytona 955i which sees 12,000 rpm fairly often. I'm told by other Daytona owners that I can rev away as long as I like, not gonna wear the bike out. I know, water cooled vs air cooled, but 12 k rpm?
So I'm skeptical of the need for piston coatings.

Sure wouldn't want to see damage occur to your Maney 920, that will be an expensive engine when complete.

Glen

This is the Diamondyze treatment applied to my current 850 Pistons:


If it increases the size at all, it is not measurable!

Actually, many automotive OEMs do use coatings on Pistons.

For my use, it's probably not required most of the time, but may just provide adequate protection on the few occasions when it is.

Nigel , are the automotive piston coatings of the type which is intended to stay intact to decrease wear, or the sacrificial type intended to hang on just long enough to help with break-in ?

Glen

worntorn said:

Nigel , are the automotive piston coatings of the type which is intended to stay intact to decrease wear, or the sacrificial type intended to hang on just long enough to help with break-in ?

Glen

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There are various types in use Glen, I'm not sure of who's using what really.

Mahle, an OEM and after market piston supplier, seems to have coated all of their pistons that I have seen.