961 shut off after 20 seconds won't restart

mean gene said:
There are two under gas tank I will play switching them around. Let you know by noon today thanks do you have the Bosch replacement number Handy thanks again.
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Replace them all eventually if you can . I am using The Honda Omron relays , look on the Norton 961 alternate parts list on this forum or just search Honda Omron Relay in the 961 forum. You don't need the tank back on to check for spark , save some time. Is that a relay to the left of the Tilt Circuit in your photo ?
Look here :

 
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If you replaced the coil, check under the tank and inspect the 2 blue relays.
 
Yes that is a relay to the left same number as the rest Don't need bike anytime soon. I knew the relays supplied were problematic. Going to order all new, replace all factory relays one at a time and repost results might be a week till I get new relays Thanks everyone
 
mean gene said:
Pulled plugs no spark The thing I'm not sure of ,if you read earlier post, is I had 0 volts on side stand switch not the 12 volts I expected is there a relay for this? switch rang out as operating thanks
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The side stand switch is to ground so no voltage will be present
 
If you have a test light you can determine if the ECU is sending out a trigger to the coil
 
and not to step on anyone's toes but you stated you had 12v to the coil. This would indicate the relay is fine and working properly. You stated fuel pump is running so that relay is fine. Still follow Tony's advice for replacement.

You can pull out each relay and check to see if that are operating properly by applying 12v and ground to terminals 1 and 2 and then check for continuity

You must check the two trigger wires from the ecu to coil. That will determine the next steps

You can also confirm the ECU is triggering the injectors when you first turn on the bike and place into run. Both injectors fire and you can hear them from each side.
 
Great information. I ordered 8 Honda relays yesterday, may have them Friday but most likely Tuesday. What voltage am I looking for? When I tested at the plug from ECU center wire was 12.9 Volts two outside wires were .04 volts or 0 I will recheck tomorrow. Hind sight being what it is; I did not turn engine over to check a signal to outer two wires!!!! Thanks
 
mean gene said:
Great information. I ordered 8 Honda relays yesterday, may have them Friday but most likely Tuesday. What voltage am I looking for? When I tested at the plug from ECU center wire was 12.9 Volts two outside wires were .04 volts or 0 I will recheck tomorrow. Hind sight being what it is; I did not turn engine over to check a signal to outer two wires!!!! Thanks
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You should have 12 volt on center wire The two outer wires are negative triggers from ecu (NO VOLTAGE). If you have an led test light then you can place one end in the outside wire of choice and the other on 12 power source like battery. When you try to start the motorcycle the led should flash to indicate each time the crank triggers the ecu. Do this for both outside wires. if they flash the ecu is sending proper signal.
 
OK All new relays all new fuses Including the 30 amp by battery. Side stand switch verified as working tip over is working . My standard test lite, not led, did not flash when turning over and plugged into outside wires leading to ECU. While waiting for further advice going to remove ECU to ck wiring and posts.
 
Do you have the service manual and the Euro 3 OMEX electrical schematic ? Look at the power down relay circuit . Is the power down relay being pulled in ? This should be passing 12V to A4 of ecu . Look at this relay and see if it is energized ... I think this is the relay next to the ECU. Check pin 3 or NR color wire for the 12 v going to A4.
 
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Disconnected battery, removed ECU, put fuel tank back on, just in case something there had to be connected. plugged in ECU NO SPARK. ck'd voltage to cam sensor 12.8volts at green wire, others zero NO service manual or wiring diagram If you sell them, 961 shut off after 20 seconds won't restart I'll buy or aim me in the right direction asked Richard 7 no reply yet. That relay is new but I'll ck it now
 
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DSC04250.JPGDSC04251.JPGOK switch on red and purple wires 12 volt nothing at yellow and red. Yellow and red wired first wire on left center of ECU Purple wires 12 volt with key off. Red wire hot after a delay when key turned off
 
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The manual was issued to us for free from Norton , It has the Euro3 OMEX schematic in it. PM me your email and I can send the pdf to you. The item in your left hand I think is the power down relay . When the key is turned on , this should pass 12v from from pins 2 and 5 to pin 3. There should be numbers printed on the relays. REMEMBER please , I don't have your year bike. This relay was introduced in 2016 . The Norton OEM relay will have the pin numbers written on it.. (look at the OEM relay for numbering) You have to locate the power down relay , according to the schematic I am looking at it will have two N ,N , (brown) a BR (black /Red) and a NR (brown/red) wires. Someone can double check the code but that is what the color code chart says on my post Decemenber 2013 schematic.
 
originally you stated you had spark at the plugs? if that is not the case now you need to retrace your steps to see what changed
 
Did you check the clutch switch as mentioned in post #2 ?

961 shut off after 20 seconds won't restart

So my 2016 961 with 500 miles started and shut off after 20 seconds of running, this was a cold start up. I have changed to the Bosch ignition no other changes. Turns over when clutch is pulled in and side stand up. But does not make an attempt to fire. Returned a couple hours no change...
www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com


EDIT .. I guess you did as the motor turns over with the clutch in. :rolleyes:

Other thoughts -

  • Kill switch - try bypassing it
  • Check the old relays. Some have a resistor across the coil whereas the Omrons have a diode. That makes them polarity conscious, so here may be a mismatch with your existing wiring. Somebody on here (maybe Clive?) had to reverse the coil connections after swapping relays.
 
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cliffa said:
Did you check the clutch switch as mentioned in post #2 ?

961 shut off after 20 seconds won't restart

So my 2016 961 with 500 miles started and shut off after 20 seconds of running, this was a cold start up. I have changed to the Bosch ignition no other changes. Turns over when clutch is pulled in and side stand up. But does not make an attempt to fire. Returned a couple hours no change...
www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com


EDIT .. I guess you did as the motor turns over with the clutch in. :rolleyes:

Other thoughts -

  • Kill switch - try bypassing it
  • Check the old relays. Some have a resistor across the coil whereas the Omrons have a diode. That makes them polarity conscious, so here may be a mismatch with your existing wiring. Somebody on here (maybe Clive?) had to reverse the coil connections after swapping relays.
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Coil has one power from a relay and two wire triggers direct from ECU. If you are getting power to center wire on coil then that's not your issue
 
Ordered a Cam Sensor waiting for it to arrive. Basically I am throwing parts at this The test suggested by City Garage did not light my test light when engine turned over, one suggested I turn engine over by hand. Also waiting for the correct wiring diagram from England, easy difference is some have 6 relays mine has 7 plus a black module for the tip over switch. Later I believe only had 4 relays. Forum in England had similar, no spark, problem and it was the tip over module any body have one? Or can tell me how to eliminate it? It's printed with Norton In the center of pic. Thanks all


961 shut off after 20 seconds won't restart
 
mean gene said:
Ordered a Cam Sensor waiting for it to arrive. Basically I am throwing parts at this The test suggested by City Garage did not light my test light when engine turned over, one suggested I turn engine over by hand. Also waiting for the correct wiring diagram from England, easy difference is some have 6 relays mine has 7 plus a black module for the tip over switch. Later I believe only had 4 relays. Forum in England had similar, no spark, problem and it was the tip over module any body have one? Or can tell me how to eliminate it? It's printed with Norton In the center of pic. Thanks all


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Well, I had to laugh. I thought only Norton would put a tipover switch in upside down !!! But that got me thinking and I looked back at some pictures I took of mine and it is the other way up (connector at the top). Could it be that simple?


961 shut off after 20 seconds won't restart
 
Actually I've just checked and the module on the right is actually the tip detection unit, which can be replaced by Triumph part number T2502405 (Switch , Fall Detection)

Edit, but confusingly the upside down unit also says Tilt switch.

Still worth putting it the right way up though.
 
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