thanks again lab,with what you,ve said im thinking I haven't a clue what ive got,but this is what I know,commando frame with number 108xxx under the vin plate,06 4140 on the front nearside tank bracket,there is no 850f prefix.thats why I thought it was a 750.my other frame is 850f129xxx stamped on the offside of the headstock,i cant see a 5 digit number under the vin plate,06 5632 is stamped on the nearside front tank bracket,which is what I thought was the part number on both frames, chris