72 JPN F 750 . Commando .

Virtually a Works Hot Rodded Commando , the frame top tubes reversed , Big Under , small brace tube over . Think downtubes cross like featherbed ,
from top of stearing head acoss main frame tube .





More funny bits .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/steveandth ... t-1803975/

Other Funny bits .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/steveandth ... t-1803975/

( primary & timing cover , Img bit was most uncooperative .

Real very picture from 1972 At Imola .



more ; http://www.flickr.com/photos/galpalu/8000948168/

Will tryn find Gbox output shaft needle roller Brg. pics , , in a Norman White rebuild of incinerated machine post , SOMEWHERE .

Re: 72 JPN Commando .

Eureka .



whop de doo


American racer Jody Nicholas races a John Player Norton in the in the John Player International at Silverstone in August of 1972. (B.R. Nichols photo)




in the exact trim used for the newly-formed team’s debut at the Daytona 200 race in Florida, when team rider Phil Read finished fourth despite overshooting a corner and losing time to rivals with faster refuelling facilities. Derived from Norton’s 750cc Commando roadster twin, the racer has a more compact frame and pannier fuel tanks to lower the centre of gravity. The engine has twin Amal GP track carburettors, a Blair two-into-one exhaust system and the first electronic ignition designed for motorcycles by Lucas. Unusually, an oil-cooling radiator is located inside the seat tailpiece.

Re: 72 JPN Commando .

Faster fueling facilities? But the opposition were only doing 16mpg, weren`t they ?..L.O.L.
Actually nice pix , thanks Matt.
P.Read insisted on the 2nd front disc, even if it looked funny [1up & 1 down] ,til they got it sorted.
`72 was lighter than the Mono` too..

Re: 72 JPN Commando .

The H2Rs did as bad as 16 mpg at Daytona , and never lasted the distance at competetive speeds . the reliability was abominable
a good deal worse than the Nortons , untill they became obsolete , which was almost instantly due to the TZ700 which never complied with the Production road Bike Castrings regulations as original used in F - 750 .
1975 and in Aus, they manadged to get them to stay together , more often than not.Perhaps .

Re: 72 JPN Commando .

Dang, Matt, you still trippin`?
FYI, H2Rs got better placings at Daytona than the J.P.N.s, & defeated them at the Thruxton endurance race too.
Here in Australia N.Doyle fettled H2Rs won National Championships against factory YZR 750 Yamahas, by dint of reliabilty, well that, & a 3,000-11,000rpm powerband..

Re: 72 JPN Commando .

Is that a NORTON :?:

Re: 72 JPN Commando .

Are you a Norton? I WAS providing a reality check Matt, what are ya, get real.
There is room for fact checking here , even if your grasp on anything resembling reality or decent presentation is as coarse & rude as your written comprehension..

Mat

Thanks, that is a cracking photograph of the frame. I have not seen the bare frame for decades. The line up of bikes by Norman White was at Donnington about 3 years ago. Really attracted a lot of attention, & Norman bless him was in the racers padock not the VIP's
Still one of the most genuine men to speak to about anything Norton. Would love to see him out racing with us a bit more as he is also a class rider.

all the best Chris

Re: 72 JPN Commando .

J.A.W. said:

Dang, Matt, you still trippin`?
FYI, H2Rs got better placings at Daytona than the J.P.N.s, & defeated them at the Thruxton endurance race too.
Here in Australia N.Doyle fettled H2Rs won National Championships against factory YZR 750 Yamahas, by dint of reliabilty, well that, & a 3,000-11,000rpm powerband..

Click to expand...

H2R never won a Dayton 2000. Overall Norton won 5 races '41 and '49 to '52 on the Manx. Kawasaki also won five, but not on the H2. Looks like Yamaha is the most dominant in the winners circle. Apples compared to oranges, but marque history.

Yeah , Yamaha managed a lockdown at the Daytona 200 through most of the `70s - F 750 era, but Commando vs H2 aint apples/oranges, they were contemporary rivals, for both showroom street superbike, & stocker production racing versions of the roadbike, through production [modified based] 'Superbike' racers & the directly related AMA & FIM F 750 homologation race bikes.

Hmmmm... I thought it was Imola being mentioned here? :roll: :wink:

The opposition here was more along the lines of another converted 750 4-stroke twin roadster, but with 'special' cylinder heads and dry clutch - and not much else.
Did rather well afterwards too, I believe :wink:



How Norton competed so well against the full might of an evidently very well funded Italian factory is classic 'True Brit' heroics, and fairly makes my heart swell with patriotic pride... a little bit, anyway.

Fuel economy may well have been a factor - I believe that Hailwood's bike was returning 40mpg on the Isle of Man

40mpg... doing ton up laps of the I.o.M.? - doubt it..Especially - if Mike was riding with the rear brake on..
& of course you do realize that P.Smart was actually earning more [winnings] money racing the H2R in `72 than the Ducati, which, away from Italy - was defeated by the J.P.Ns & H2Rs in `72, - before fading away..outclassed, even by the 350 Yamahas..

Just cause a H2 750 does 16 mpg doent mean a Ducati cant do 40 + .
A certain Trident snotted the ring dings in the I.o.M. production T.T. for half a decade , anyway .




Looks like the sohc Hondas donthave cooling tunnels between the cylinders . Thatd explain why Mann's was collapseing at the Daytona Finish .

Still delving into the realms of fantasy, eh Matt, as if bullshitting is a substitute for proper research...
From The Motor Cycle, 9 July `69, :discussing fuel consumption at the I.o.M. TT; Triumph Trident, 25mpg, factory Bonnevilles, 27mpg...
40+ mpg from a 100 hp Ducati doing ton-up laps?, yeah right...Maths remediation still not done..
Funny you mention Mann`s Honda, since the Hailwood Ducati in fact emulated that feat..

" the Ducati, which, away from Italy - was defeated by the J.P.Ns & H2Rs in `72, - before fading away..outclassed, even by the 350 Yamahas.. "

INDEED ? . :shock: Ducati RE Zults ,

1981

Spanish 24 Horas de Montjuic - Grau/De Juan - 900
1980

Argentino Maxi Moto - Ricardo Camillo Garcia - 900SS



Spanish 24 Horas de Montjuic - Mallol/Tajedo - 900
1978

Austrian C. Sterreich Osk Cup - Wolfschlucker - 900SS
Isola di Man Formula 1 TT - Mike Hailwood - 900
World Formula TT1- Championship Constructors - 900
World Formula TT1 - Mike Hailwood - 900
1976

Italian Trophy Maxi Moto 750 - Adelio Faccioli - 750
1975

Spanish 24 Horas de Montjuic - Canellas/Grau - 900
1973

Spanish 24 Horas de Montjuic - Canellas/Grau - 900

" Still delving into the realms of fantasy, eh Matt, as if bullshitting is a substitute for proper research...
From The Motor Cycle, 9 July `69, :discussing fuel consumption at the I.o.M. TT; Triumph Trident, 25mpg, factory Bonnevilles, 27mpg...
40+ mpg from a 100 hp Ducati doing ton-up laps?, yeah right...Maths remediation still not done..
Funny you mention Mann`s Honda, since the Hailwood Ducati in fact emulated that feat "

I believe motorcycle sport , one of the near trustworthy jourals , stated 45 mpg for the dewcati .Hailwood effort . A skilled rider would run near constant throttle settings , rather than waveing his elbow around like the Thewper Bike honda boys are apt . Hailwood was also noted for not climbing out of the streamlineing , as has become popular , seemingly to maintain control of yeehicals . Noteably pioneered by King Kenny woberts , perhaps to counter the TZs waywarness .He was seldow enthralled with Yamahas steering characteristics , finding a knee was required to prop the thing up . Wonders
we all have knee sliders these days. Trainer wheels next . :?:

as for 45 mpg & Triumph / BSA triples ? 1 & 1 is 2 , not 11 . Check your arithmatic .

You may find youre better suited to a Z1 kwickersaki , with its wonderous handling , unbelievable power and astounding styling than a Norton ,which requires some degree of dedication competance &
cleanliness mechanically , and is struggling to achive 60 horsepower , or start . then theres the gearbox , the brakes , the electrics , carburators and a few other things your nazi associates mastered
pre war .

At least yoose guys bickkering revealed some interesting points about race mileage and even more interesting ape hanger style vs tight to frame and air stream style I've come to savor most. Peel in her prime got down to 30's mpg when dicing with sports bikes over about 60 miles a go, so two gallons low after topping off IS tank. The sportbikes also drop into the 30 mpg when getting on it out here. If ya go around harsh enough fuel mass and fuel sloosh are noticed to dangerous factors to keep in mind besides running out a ways from a refill.

Matt, are you claiming that the `72 Imola 200 winning Ducati was 900cc? Maybe thats why it won in Italy, but bugger-all elsewhere?
Pretty sure that F750 had an upper capacity limit of 750cc, though I note that at least one Ducati '750' was disqualified from the Castrol 6 hour race for measuring in at rather more.. -using your mathematical/magical thinking perhaps.
Have you any 1st hand evidence of that 40+mpg claim, if true - then at legal road speeds those Ducatis must be doing 100+ mpg..L.O.L.
But have you ever ridden one? Thought not..

The story I heard about Imola was that the officials kept the bikes on the starting grid for a full five minutes before dropping the flag, and several bikes had vapor lock issues, including Don Emde and his Gus Kuhn Seeley-Norton

That frame looks like many frames of the era, and surprisingly similar to the frame on one of mine:

BillT said:

The story I heard about Imola was that the officials kept the bikes on the starting grid for a full five minutes before dropping the flag, and several bikes had vapor lock issues, including Don Emde and his Gus Kuhn Seeley-Norton

That frame looks like many frames of the era, and surprisingly similar to the frame on one of mine:

Click to expand...

I think you need to study that Norton frame a bit more... :roll: