67 BSA Victor - just got my latest Project
- Thread starter Mark
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Messages
- 893
She'll be a thing of beauty Mark.
That last photo looks like a "Spare parts wall Display" from the Sixties.
Will you go with the original Tank, or opt for an alloy B50 type / early CCM.
Take care when the Flywheels go back together.
Not sure how similar the 441 is to the B50 / early CCM barrel, but,....
There was a Weslake, 4 valve conversion, for the early Clews Comp Machinery. (late 75, early 76, I think from memory).,
avaliable for 1 year approx, untill Clews built his own.
Any way, she'll go alright, plenty fast enough for the suspension.
A Mk.11 Amal or Mikuni, in 32mm is a notable asset, unless you never fall off.
Then of course there's total loss ignition, for wieght saving. etc.etc.
Sounds like great fun to me.
AC.
That last photo looks like a "Spare parts wall Display" from the Sixties.
Will you go with the original Tank, or opt for an alloy B50 type / early CCM.
Take care when the Flywheels go back together.
Not sure how similar the 441 is to the B50 / early CCM barrel, but,....
There was a Weslake, 4 valve conversion, for the early Clews Comp Machinery. (late 75, early 76, I think from memory).,
avaliable for 1 year approx, untill Clews built his own.
Any way, she'll go alright, plenty fast enough for the suspension.
A Mk.11 Amal or Mikuni, in 32mm is a notable asset, unless you never fall off.
Then of course there's total loss ignition, for wieght saving. etc.etc.
Sounds like great fun to me.
AC.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2010
- Messages
- 3,289
I recently purchased a HF benchtop blast cabinet and 35# of their medium baking soda media. I originally purchased it to do some decorative wall lights for a customer, but on a whim I threw my cases in there, WOW. I made sure they were as clean and degreased as I could get them. The results were fantastic. The cases look just like they were made. The BS media only removes paint and dirt, no base material is disturbed. I am going to use this a lot more. I did my engine and transmission cases on the combat. The best part is after you are done blasting a little water completly removes any traces. No nasty grit to destroy bearings.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2006
- Messages
- 943
Well, I got the crankshaft assembly back together today. The conrod is now spinning nicely
with no longer any up and down slop.
It really wasn't too tough once I figured it out. I only had to take it apart 4 times to get it lined up.
I trued it up (rigged up a quick jig) and the runout is right on.
How do you guys on the other side of the pond say it? ........It's the Mutts Nuts!
One thing that really helped me get it lined up so quickly is that I scribed a couple of lines on the
flywheels before I separated them and used them as index marks when reassembling.
I also relieved the inside of the bearings so now I have a tight sliding fit on the crank shafts.
I did this for the purpose of assembling, measuring the endplay, centering the rod, disassembling and shimming.
I am making this bike a full roller bottom end ala 850 commando.
:mrgreen:
The outer roller bearing races are in the freezer right now, I'll install them in the cases tomorrow. Then after measuring,
I know that I won't have the right shims to attain the .003 endplay so I'll have to order some and
wait to receive them before proceeding.
with no longer any up and down slop.
It really wasn't too tough once I figured it out. I only had to take it apart 4 times to get it lined up.
I trued it up (rigged up a quick jig) and the runout is right on.
How do you guys on the other side of the pond say it? ........It's the Mutts Nuts!
One thing that really helped me get it lined up so quickly is that I scribed a couple of lines on the
flywheels before I separated them and used them as index marks when reassembling.
I also relieved the inside of the bearings so now I have a tight sliding fit on the crank shafts.
I did this for the purpose of assembling, measuring the endplay, centering the rod, disassembling and shimming.
I am making this bike a full roller bottom end ala 850 commando.
:mrgreen:
The outer roller bearing races are in the freezer right now, I'll install them in the cases tomorrow. Then after measuring,
I know that I won't have the right shims to attain the .003 endplay so I'll have to order some and
wait to receive them before proceeding.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2008
- Messages
- 954
Looks like you've done a thorough job, Mark. I was not familiar with these engines until you started this thread. Am I right that you converted the bottom end to rollers from ball bearing mains? Or was it a ball on one side, roller on the other? Is the timing side of the crank pulled up tight against a register or is the end float controlled solely by shimming? Do you have a figure for the side clearance of the con rod to flywheels? What type of big end bearing do you have? Is it an alloy cage with loose needle rollers or a steel cage?
Dave
Dave
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2006
- Messages
- 943
daveh:
For someone not familiar with these little engines, you sure asked the right questions!
FWIW, I'm not too familiar either, I'm learning as I go.
The engine was originally roller on the drive side , Ball on the timing.
I just put a brass caged roller bearing in place of the ball bearing.
Crank endplay will be controlled by shims only. .003 play dry will give me plenty of freedom
(after I assemble the cases with loctite 518 flange seal) without being too much.
I set the endfloat to its minimum of 3 thou to of course reduce the effect of a crank moving from side to side,
in 3 thou it can't pickup much speed, and it's inertia that accounts for banging the bearings into submission.
I used a new Alpha B26 crankpin (Big end bearing). It has 12 full rollers (unlike the Stock 24 smaller/split rollers)
and an alloy cage.
Rod to flywheel clearance is 12 thousandths (.006 per side) which is really determined by the machining of the
flywheels and crank pin, I didn't have any control of that.
From what I have read, there is plenty of clearance to insure proper big end oiling.
For someone not familiar with these little engines, you sure asked the right questions!
FWIW, I'm not too familiar either, I'm learning as I go.
The engine was originally roller on the drive side , Ball on the timing.
I just put a brass caged roller bearing in place of the ball bearing.
Crank endplay will be controlled by shims only. .003 play dry will give me plenty of freedom
(after I assemble the cases with loctite 518 flange seal) without being too much.
I set the endfloat to its minimum of 3 thou to of course reduce the effect of a crank moving from side to side,
in 3 thou it can't pickup much speed, and it's inertia that accounts for banging the bearings into submission.
I used a new Alpha B26 crankpin (Big end bearing). It has 12 full rollers (unlike the Stock 24 smaller/split rollers)
and an alloy cage.
Rod to flywheel clearance is 12 thousandths (.006 per side) which is really determined by the machining of the
flywheels and crank pin, I didn't have any control of that.
From what I have read, there is plenty of clearance to insure proper big end oiling.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2008
- Messages
- 954
Mark said:daveh:
For someone not familiar with these little engines, you sure asked the right questions!
FWIW, I'm not too familiar either, I'm learning as I go.
The engine was originally roller on the drive side , Ball on the timing.
I just put a brass caged roller bearing in place of the ball bearing.
Crank endplay will be controlled by shims only. .003 play dry will give me plenty of freedom
(after I assemble the cases with loctite 518 flange seal) without being too much.
I set the endfloat to its minimum of 3 thou to of course reduce the effect of a crank moving from side to side,
in 3 thou it can't pickup much speed, and it's inertia that accounts for banging the bearings into submission.
I used a new Alpha B26 crankpin (Big end bearing). It has 12 full rollers (unlike the Stock 24 smaller/split rollers)
and an alloy cage.
Rod to flywheel clearance is 12 thousandths (.006 per side) which is really determined by the machining of the
flywheels and crank pin, I didn't have any control of that.
From what I have read, there is plenty of clearance to insure proper big end oiling.
I'm familiar with a few other singles, e.g Ducati and Matchless. I have always thought those BSA singles were neat bikes that had potential and would make a good project. From the way you are building it, it will be given a good chance to be a reliable and fun bike to ride.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2009
- Messages
- 1,609
They are a blast, like I've said here a gazzilion times I love my 441 Shooting Star. Your building a great motor probobly stronger then stock, I saw one at a local Brit bike shop in Orange CA a while ago that someone had made into an amazing Cafe bike. Far from typical it had top quality everything. High end Italion controls/clipons/rear sets. Custom seat and some real high tech electronics etc. And a bright bright red! Whoever did it was dreaming of a 450 Desmo Duck single with BSA badges.. It was a early round cylinder motor so I hope they did good with the bottom end, I've heard they like to explode if worked to hard.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2006
- Messages
- 943
I haven't posted on the project lately, I been occupied with life lately so
the bike has been put somewhat on the back burner.
I have made some progress - here's an update:
Crankshaft shimmed and cases bolted up tight:
Back on the makeshift engine stand
Timing side:
Piston in / cylinder on:
Gearbox:
Drive side (NOTE the holes drilled for crankcase breathing):
Carburetor - 32mm. Amal:
The Engine as of today - head bolted on:
Rear Brake / hub:
Frame - only repair needed was welding the kickstand lug back on correctly:
Before:
After - paint, swingarm installed:
I've also got the foot pegs, top motor mount and brake pedal painted, I just didn't take a pic of them.
The rear fended is just mocked up for now. It was stock but I cut it down and rotated it forward about 5 inches.
The plan is to weld up the holes and paint it (eventually).
the bike has been put somewhat on the back burner.
I have made some progress - here's an update:
Crankshaft shimmed and cases bolted up tight:
Back on the makeshift engine stand
Timing side:
Piston in / cylinder on:
Gearbox:
Drive side (NOTE the holes drilled for crankcase breathing):
Carburetor - 32mm. Amal:
The Engine as of today - head bolted on:
Rear Brake / hub:
Frame - only repair needed was welding the kickstand lug back on correctly:
Before:
After - paint, swingarm installed:
I've also got the foot pegs, top motor mount and brake pedal painted, I just didn't take a pic of them.
The rear fended is just mocked up for now. It was stock but I cut it down and rotated it forward about 5 inches.
The plan is to weld up the holes and paint it (eventually).
worntorn
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- Dec 22, 2006
- Messages
- 7,959
Mark, the large timing gear in the photo appears to be a white plastic job, probably made from UHMW, is this correct?
An aftermarket Vincent supplier made mag drive gears out of this stuff for both twins and 500 singles. They were used quite a lot in the 80s 90s, the claim was quieter running. The other claim was that they would be long wearing.
They werent, in fact they let go at very low miles. The white plastic does not stand up well to the heat of the engine. It likes to go "plasticky". The teeth sort of half let go, which creates a shift in timing. That alone can wreck a motor and did in at least one situation. Generally tho, they just lose their teeth, leave you stranded with a crankcase full of shredded plastic, engine teardown required to remove shredded plastic and unblock oil passages.
So if it is one of those white plastic gears, deep six it, if not, carry on, looks great!
Glen
An aftermarket Vincent supplier made mag drive gears out of this stuff for both twins and 500 singles. They were used quite a lot in the 80s 90s, the claim was quieter running. The other claim was that they would be long wearing.
They werent, in fact they let go at very low miles. The white plastic does not stand up well to the heat of the engine. It likes to go "plasticky". The teeth sort of half let go, which creates a shift in timing. That alone can wreck a motor and did in at least one situation. Generally tho, they just lose their teeth, leave you stranded with a crankcase full of shredded plastic, engine teardown required to remove shredded plastic and unblock oil passages.
So if it is one of those white plastic gears, deep six it, if not, carry on, looks great!
Glen
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2006
- Messages
- 943
Here are a few more pics just to let you know that there is still some progress being made on my project.
I haven't been doing much on it lately , work, the holidays, surfing the internet have all been taking up a lot of my free time.
It's coming along - slow but sure.
THE ROCKER BOX:
The bore for the decompression lever (valve lifter) was wallered out so I had to devise a bushing for it.
It looks like it is going to work out just fine:
I spent a little more time lightening and polishing the rocker arms:
It is all back together now and bolted onto the engine.
PRIMARY DRIVE:
The clutch got new rollers
New Cush Rubbers
And a new Primary chain
Rotor and Stator installed
Just clutch plates and it's ready to button up.
I'm gonna do that with the engine back in the frame and the cable hooked back up
for the sake of an easy clutch adjustment.
I just received all of the pieces required to rebuild the Ceriani Front End from the steering
head bearings on down. That's the next step in this saga.
I haven't been doing much on it lately , work, the holidays, surfing the internet have all been taking up a lot of my free time.
It's coming along - slow but sure.
THE ROCKER BOX:
The bore for the decompression lever (valve lifter) was wallered out so I had to devise a bushing for it.
It looks like it is going to work out just fine:
I spent a little more time lightening and polishing the rocker arms:
It is all back together now and bolted onto the engine.
PRIMARY DRIVE:
The clutch got new rollers
New Cush Rubbers
And a new Primary chain
Rotor and Stator installed
Just clutch plates and it's ready to button up.
I'm gonna do that with the engine back in the frame and the cable hooked back up
for the sake of an easy clutch adjustment.
I just received all of the pieces required to rebuild the Ceriani Front End from the steering
head bearings on down. That's the next step in this saga.