1972 ? Commando 750 Serial number

L.A.B. · Sep 1, 2015

Rohan said:
Not necessarily - the breather was changed part way into the 1972 model year, (from VIN 200,000)
so early 1972 models (made late 1971) would still have the earlier breather system.

"200000" has always been officially accepted as being the start of "1972" production, therefore how has 200000 suddenly become "part way into the 1972 model year" :?

http://www.bmh.com.au/norton/index.php?id=modelnum

Rohan · Sep 1, 2015

Because Jan 1972 is quoted as the date for that 200,000 number ??

What happened to all the production for the 1972 model in the final months of 1971,
when Nortons always switched to next years models after the August holidays.

Thats why there are VIN numbers well beyond 150,000 , that are later than 1971 models ?

???

Rohan · Sep 1, 2015

Or, why aren't 1972 200,000 Vin numbers quoted from late 1971, as the factory practice usually was.
Jan 1972 is a full quarter of the way into the production year.

http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Maint ... umbers.htm

L.A.B. · Sep 2, 2015

Rohan said:
Because Jan 1972 is quoted as the date for that 200,000 number ??

What happened to all the production for the 1972 model in the final months of 1971,
when Nortons always switched to next years models after the August holidays.

Thats why there are VIN numbers well beyond 150,000 , that are later than 1971 models ?

???

You are making the usual mistake of muddling the model release date with the start of production date. We know production of 200000 series machines began around October 1971, certification plate date stamps given by forum members prove that.
We do know "15" series production didn't end at 150500 but this seems to be nothing more than a typo. "153500" seems more likely.

Rohan · Sep 2, 2015

I had the feeling this has been discussed here, recently.
But didn't leap out at me.

So what did Norton Dealers sell between Oct 71 and Jan 1972 ?

L.A.B. said:
We do know "15" series production didn't end at 150500 but this seems to be nothing more than a typo. "153500" seems more likely.

So why hasn't someone penned something solid about this in the intervening 40+ years ?
Missing records maybe

L.A.B. · Sep 2, 2015

Rohan said:
So what did Norton Dealers sell between Oct 71 and Jan 1972 ?

Whatever they had in stock, as it would obviously take several weeks for production to get into dealer's showrooms around the world.

Rohan · Sep 2, 2015

Thats a 3 month gap though.

L.A.B. · Sep 2, 2015

Rohan said:
Thats a 3 month gap though.

Yes, so?

Rohan · Sep 2, 2015

No bikes to sell for 3 months.
Some Dealers could be getting a tad hungry on that ?

kommando · Sep 2, 2015

They did not stop production for 3 months so no 3 month gap of bikes to sell and Dec Jan are very slow selling months so a 2 or 3 week gap when the factory was being retooled would not have been an issue (there would have been a shutdown over Xmas/New year anyway). When I worked at Longbridge the longest we shut the car assembly line down for a model year change was 1 shift, out in the metal cutting parts of the factory any long changeovers were covered in advance by stock piling of old model year parts using overtime as required for maybe months and then shutting the machine down for the changeover, this would have applied to the crankcase machining line at Norton . So a stockpile of 71 crankcases could have been built up so the line could be retooled, the engine assembly line would have continued using the stockpile until the changeover to 72 crankcases.

L.A.B. · Sep 2, 2015

Rohan said:
No bikes to sell for 3 months.

How do you work that out? :?
If it took around 3 months lead time for stock to get from the factory to various dealers around the world, then what would be arriving at the dealers in October would be bikes made around July, and August production would reach dealers in November, etc., etc. so how does it leave them with nothing to sell?

Rohan · Sep 2, 2015

If there is a 3 month gap in production/supply - since YOU just pointed out there was 3 months between announcement and availability,
I was "making the usual mistake of muddling the model release date with the start of production date" doesn't that mean
there is that 3 months without that chain of supply of 1972 models ?

ie Dealers would usually have had 1972 models to sell from Oct 1971.
But they didn't.

Or have I missed something ??

L.A.B. · Sep 2, 2015

Rohan said:
If there is a 3 month gap in production/supply - since YOU just pointed out there was 3 months between announcement and availability,

No, again you are muddling things. If the official release date was sometime during January, then stock would already be reaching dealers by the official release date if '72 production commenced around October '71.

Rohan said:
I was "making the usual mistake of muddling the model release date with the start of production date" doesn't that mean
there is that 3 months without that chain of supply of 1972 models ?

No, of course it doesn't.

Rohan said:
ie Dealers would usually have had 1972 models to sell from Oct 1971.

Would they?

Rohan said:
But they didn't.

Probably not, as it wouldn't have been possible to ship large amounts of machines to dealers half way around the world that quickly. Obviously dealers either in, or closer to, the UK would probably have got new stock more quickly.

Rohan said:
Or have I missed something ??

I think so.

Rohan · Sep 2, 2015

There is a 3 month gap in possible sales, and you are saying it would have had no affect ??? !!!

I came from the computer industy, and a 3 month gap in supply/sales would have killed a lot of Dealers. !!!
May not be totally the same, but the business plan is the same. (?).
Payroll and rent being the biggies, in many cases.

Maybe Norton Dealers just sold more Hondas to compensate.
Or Triumphs perhaps...

Or were the 1971 model Commandos slow sellers, and it didn't actually make any difference ?!

L.A.B. · Sep 2, 2015

Rohan said:
There is a 3 month gap in possible sales

No! There isn't (or wasn't)!

Rohan · Sep 2, 2015

But if the new 1972 models would usually have been available for sale from Oct 71,
and this was pushed back to an announcement in Jan 1972,
that sure looks like a 3 month gap to me ??

Or are you going back on me "muddling the announcement and production start dates" ?

L.A.B. · Sep 2, 2015

Rohan said:
But if the new 1972 models would usually have been available for sale from Oct 71,

How could they "have been available for sale from October '71"? It simply wouldn't have been possible to ship the new production around the world that quickly?

Rohan said:
and this was pushed back to an announcement in Jan 1972,
that sure looks like a 3 month gap to me ??

No, there's no "push back" as you put it and no gap for the reasons already stated. It's simply the lead time necessary to get new production to dealers in readiness for the official release.

Rohan · Sep 2, 2015

I can't help thinking we are missing the full story here.....

Some other years, folks have reported that had their new model in their garage before the New Year.

And with you suggesting

We do know "15" series production didn't end at 150500 but this seems to be nothing more than a typo. "153500" seems more likely.

we wonder how correct this interpretation is. Some documentation to back this up could be informative

L.A.B. · Sep 2, 2015

Rohan said:
Some other years, folks have reported that had their new model in their garage before the New Year.

It's possible some new models were sold to customers before the official release date, but that doesn't change anything.

Rohan said:
And with you suggesting

We do know "15" series production didn't end at 150500 but this seems to be nothing more than a typo. "153500" seems more likely.

Click to expand...

we wonder how correct this interpretation is. Some documentation to back this up could be informative

We know "15" series production continued past 150500 as there are many forum accounts of higher numbers, however, I don't follow your reasoning that any 150500+ serial numbered machine is somehow considered to be a '72 production bike-as the generally accepted start of 1972 production (also according to the NOC data) began at 200001.

Changaroo · Sep 2, 2015

I recently purchased a basket case 1971 Commando number 147502. The bike I purchased new in March 1972 was numbered 20M3S 152681. This bike showed 1972 on the Registration documentation but was definitely a 1971 model. I know it was 40+ years ago but in the back of my mind I seem to recall that it was Sept 1971 on the red plate. I sold that bike! Maybe if the OP chimes in he could advise us of the date on his red plate, as his bike was probably made on the same day as my old bike.

1972 ? Commando 750 Serial number

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