1971 Norton Commando Fastback LR @ Tulsa Tech!

Our Commando is red. The paint is factory original but has been chipped in places during years of storage. We'd like to repaint it the original color. Does anyone know what the paint code is? We have a local automotive paint store that does a great job of properly mixing paint but they need the code.

Al

Does anyone know what the paint code is?

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Even if the original code was known, the paint companies have long since deleted those color formulas. Since you have original gelcoat. (It wasnt' paint on most of the fiberglass), take tank or tail to your paint jobber. The underside will not be as faded as the exposed area, so those are the best are to match.

A large jobber (such as a PPG Platinum Distributor) will have a spectrometer that can measure the color and give them a formula to start with. The new software is pretty good and usually does not require adjustments, but most guys will spread a little out and dry it to compare with your part.

Ron L said:

Does anyone know what the paint code is?

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Even if the original code was known, the paint companies have long since deleted those color formulas. Since you have original gelcoat. (It wasnt' paint on most of the fiberglass), take tank or tail to your paint jobber. The underside will not be as faded as the exposed area, so those are the best are to match.

A large jobber (such as a PPG Platinum Distributor) will have a spectrometer that can measure the color and give them a formula to start with. The new software is pretty good and usually does not require adjustments, but most guys will spread a little out and dry it to compare with your part.

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Thanks, Ron! I'll do that. I had thought that I might paint it Porsche Guards Red. Compare the bike's color with the 928S in the background in one of the pictures in Seventeen's slide show. Your idea is much better, though.

Our Fast Back, Long Range has a steel tank. It was made using an Atlas top part with the bottom redesigned to fit the Commando frame. The fast back and side covers are, of course, fiberglass.

The paint is not badly faded, probably because the bike has been indoors, usually in darkness, since 1974. It's just chipped because of things having been stacked on top of it while it was in the storage room. Arrgh! What would we do without brothers?


Al

L.A.B. said:

Tulsaalva said:

I'm sure you're right, Les, about the Podrtonics unit. We used a special one for the Bonneville Special, which is negative ground. If I recall, it had three wires to connect.

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OK thanks, as I wasn't aware there were three-wire Podtronic units! Generally replacement single phase electronic control units have four wires, so the positive and negative wires can be connected to suit the bike's polarity. Your Bonneville Special of course, is a negative earth/ground model, unlike the Commando.

Tulsaalva said:

If you have any tips on how to wire the Pirhana with the Podtronics unit, we'd be most grateful.

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I can't see any reason why the the Pod. unit wouldn't work perfectly well with the Piranha ignition system.

"Piranha" became "Newtronic" some years ago.

Due to financial problems, these Piranha/Newtronic units (or any services and spares) may no longer be available, as far as I know, even though they are offered for sale on their website? http://www.lumenition.com/newtronic/index.html
The system is reasonably easy to set up, and is basically similar to other types, except for the pickup which has an optical trigger instead of the more common magnetic type used with other electronic systems.

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Thanks for your wealth of knowledge, Les.
How is the Piranha Ignition supposed to be wired into the bike? Right now, I have one wire coming from where the points used to be, and runs straight to the piranha box. Coming from the box, there is a red wire with a ring terminal at the end and it is not hooked to anything. It does not seem to connect to the coils. I'm sure it must need to, I just need to know how.

Seventeen said:

How is the Piranha Ignition supposed to be wired into the bike? Right now, I have one wire coming from where the points used to be, and runs straight to the piranha box. Coming from the box, there is a red wire with a ring terminal at the end and it is not hooked to anything. It does not seem to connect to the coils. I'm sure it must need to, I just need to know how.

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Seventeen,

I think I've actually reached the limit of my knowledge on the subject of Piranha ignitions, unfortunately?

As it must be over 20 years since I've even seen a Piranha ignition! They were never quite as popular in the UK as the Boyer Bransden ignitions, possibly because the Piranha kits were a bit more expensive?

A Red wire with a ring terminal would suggest that it's a ground connection, to me?
As I would expect the ignition system to match the bike's polarity, which for any Norton Commando would normally be positive ground/earth?


I've had another dig around, and it seems that "Newtronic" is now "NewTronic" and may be owned by "Autocar"?

There's some limited information on their website, but nothing on the Commando version

http://newtronic.co.uk/

If you emailed NewTronic/Autocar, maybe they would be able to supply you with a copy of the Piranha fitting instructions?



A company in the USA (HVC Cycle) also appears to be selling NewTronic kits:
http://www.hvccycle.com/Electronic%20Ignition.htm

Possibly they can help?

Thanks for the link to Neutronics/Autocar, Les. I've written an email to them. Hopefully, we'll hear from them soon.

Al

Well, School's over for the summer and Tulsa Tech has cleaned out the motorcycle classroom. The Norton came home in a pickup in pieces. Seventeen gave up on both the Norton and the motorcycle school, even though he has an "A" in the class. They had a severe problem with the instructors. One left just after winter break and moved to Texas (get this!) owing MONEY to some of the students! He was replaced by a substitute teacher who acted as a baby sitter until a motorcycle mechanic was found to take over the class. He had no knowledge of Nortons. In fact, he changed the + - markings on the battery with a magic marker!

The net result was that Seventeen feels he has not learned enough to be able to walk into a motorcycle shop and honestly claim to be able to do even the most rudimentary maintenance. He won't continue the class his senior year. Instead, he will take some advanced academic courses, a schedule intended to impress those folks at universities who hand out the scholarships.

So I'm sitting on a Commando that has to be put back together. I've begun the project by preparing to paint the tank, side covers and fast back. I'll also have the seat reupholstered, since there are some small tears in it. So far, I've sanded and primed the parts. LaNelle has the tank and side cover decals in stock in gold for $24.00. I have the following Porsche colors (left over from previous car projects) in stock: Silver Blue, Dark blue with purple highlights, and white. I also have clear coat and gold pearl available. The bike was originally red but I've decided there is no reason to attempt a full restoration because the engine and frame numbers don't match. (I will leave a portion of the red underside of the tank, which is not faded, so that a subsequent owner could scan and replicate the color.) My plan is to sell the bike when it's completed. LaNelle has offered her opinion that a kick-ass paint job would help the bike sell better than would the original red, especially since the numbers don't match.

Other than the seat, tank, side covers, fast back and wiring harness, no significant parts have been removed. The biggest expense will likely be the replacement of the original exhaust system which is dinged in spots and has significant surface rust freckles. It will need tires. My initial thought is to use TT100s but would appreciate any tips on what might be better.

I'd be most grateful to y'all if you can give me any tips and tell me if you think my plan is off-base in any way. Should I sell the bike "As Is" and put my efforts into a 944 that is waiting its turn? If so, how? eBay? Some other way I'm not aware of?

Thanks, y'all! I'm looking forward to your replies.

Al

There are no right, or wrong, answers as to what to do with your Norton, except that it has to be "right" to YOU.

Do you have time, money, and inclination to finish it? Then do so!

I like the new Avon RoadRider tires, by the way.

hi tulsa ,thats a sad post to read, sorry it did,nt work out,if i was torn between a 944 and a fastback LR, then the 944 would have to go despite the numbers not matching,and would keep the original colours but its your call

grandpaul said:

There are no right, or wrong, answers as to what to do with your Norton, except that it has to be "right" to YOU.

Do you have time, money, and inclination to finish it? Then do so!

I like the new Avon RoadRider tires, by the way.

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A retired 69 year old, I have more time than anything else, Grandpaul. There is enough money to complete the bike without damaging the family budget. Quite frankly, I've had some problems coping since my wife's death. I've found that I can concentrate sufficiently on things mechanical to stop the tears. From that standpoint, I not only have the inclination, I feel I must have a project going to maintain my sanity. So now I have three.

Thanks for the tip on the Avons!

Al

chris plant said:

hi tulsa ,thats a sad post to read, sorry it did,nt work out,if i was torn between a 944 and a fastback LR, then the 944 would have to go despite the numbers not matching,and would keep the original colours but its your call

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Well, Chris, I'm fond of old water-pumping Porsches, too. Each of my sons has an '87 944 (project cars of mine) and I drive a 928S. They beat hell out of these new cars with air bags and little personality. I've recently bought an '83 944 that has been in storage since 1991. The body is perfect; the original paint isn't even faded, and it weighs some 300 pounds less than 85.5 and later models. I'm looking forward to making a hot rod out of it. But this is a Norton forum...

I'm still being wishy-washy about the paint. There are a lot of good reasons to keep the original paint scheme. For one thing, chips don't show a different color. Still, I think the bike would be beautiful in Porsche white with gold decals and a gold pearl topcoat... Seventeen's 944 is white with crimson strips under the doors with PORSCHE showing through in white. It turns heads constantly; people often give him a "thumbs up" wave at traffic lights.

I plan to decide by tomorrow... unless I change my mind again.

Al

Sorry for your loss mate.
I found last winter that working with my hands was a great help with the loss of my mom.
I'd keep the original color as long as it was a reasonable one. Matching numbers aren't everything, if a bike really got used they were often non matching.

Tulsaalva said:

chris plant said:

hi tulsa ,thats a sad post to read, sorry it did,nt work out,if i was torn between a 944 and a fastback LR, then the 944 would have to go despite the numbers not matching,and would keep the original colours but its your call

Click to expand...

Well, Chris, I'm fond of old water-pumping Porsches, too. Each of my sons has an '87 944 (project cars of mine) and I drive a 928S. They beat hell out of these new cars with air bags and little personality. I've recently bought an '83 944 that has been in storage since 1991. The body is perfect; the original paint isn't even faded, and it weighs some 300 pounds less than 85.5 and later models. I'm looking forward to making a hot rod out of it. But this is a Norton forum...

I'm still being wishy-washy about the paint. There are a lot of good reasons to keep the original paint scheme. For one thing, chips don't show a different color. Still, I think the bike would be beautiful in Porsche white with gold decals and a gold pearl topcoat... Seventeen's 944 is white with crimson strips under the doors with PORSCHE showing through in white. It turns heads constantly; people often give him a "thumbs up" wave at traffic lights.

I plan to decide by tomorrow... unless I change my mind again.

Al

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I had an 85 1/2 944 for a while. I loved that thing, except the colour.....Kalahari Beige. Yuck!. And teh sunroof was a bit of a pain sometimes as it had the guts from the 1984 still. It was the most reliable car I've ever owned and it turned heads as well. Not bad for an old car and you're right, lot's more personality than a new car. After an all stainless exhaust, a chip and upgraded suspension with some 18" wheels off a 993 turbo it was a very fun car.

I did the opposite. I sold my 944 to buy a Norton.

I will own another Porsche some day and it will be a 968 or a 968 turbo if I can find one as I don't think too many turbos made it into Canada.

Cookie said:

Sorry for your loss mate.
I found last winter that working with my hands was a great help with the loss of my mom.

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I've found that too, Cookie. When I'm involved in getting something mechanical to fit just right, I can concentrate on it and not feel sorry for myself. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for the most wonderful twenty-nine years of my life, but I'd rather have had twenty-nine more.

I'd keep the original color as long as it was a reasonable one. Matching numbers aren't everything, if a bike really got used they were often non matching.

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The bike was originally red. LaNelle only had a complete set of decals in gold in stock. I bought them today. (Does anyone have any secrets on how to line them up properly on the tank and side covers?) I've decided to go with the Porsche white (left over from Seventeen's car) with a very light gold pearl topcoat. I think the bike will be unique and quite striking. With a white base, it'll be easy to change the color if the next owner wants to. I took the seat to my favorite upholsterer today to have the torn seat recovered. She's going to use an off-white leather-like pattern that has a slight gold tint, unnoticed unless it's placed next to a pure white material. She will remove the cover and call me so I can pick up the seat pan and paint it before she puts the cover on. I'll give the old cover to the new owner to use as a pattern if he doesn't like the white.

I was once told by a former Norton employee that a lot of bikes left the factory with engine and frame numbers that didn't match, simply because the assemblers got them mixed up. I've been told by others that they always had matching numbers, so I really don't know what's the truth. I bought the bike in Germany with a blown engine. It had 6200 miles on it then. The owner told me he'd missed a shift on the Autobahn. I can tell you there were no useable parts in the engine. I found an engine in a wrecked bike. The owner had rounded a curve near Bitburg right after a German farmer had driven a herd of cows across the road. He slipped in the cow shit and the bike hit a tree. The cow manure that had dried on the wreckage gave some credence to the story.

The engine had just been overhauled by a Norton dealer in Belgium and was in perfect condition, undamaged in the crash. I think this is true because the bike turned out to be a rocket. The two bikes had been built about the same time (November, 1971, if memory serves) and are close but do not match, of course.

Thanks for the tips you've given. I wish I could find a website for 944s with guys like y'all posting!

Al

Coco said:

Tulsaalva said:

chris plant said:

hi tulsa ,thats a sad post to read, sorry it did,nt work out,if i was torn between a 944 and a fastback LR, then the 944 would have to go despite the numbers not matching,and would keep the original colours but its your call

Click to expand...

Well, Chris, I'm fond of old water-pumping Porsches, too. Each of my sons has an '87 944 (project cars of mine) and I drive a 928S. They beat hell out of these new cars with air bags and little personality. I've recently bought an '83 944 that has been in storage since 1991. The body is perfect; the original paint isn't even faded, and it weighs some 300 pounds less than 85.5 and later models. I'm looking forward to making a hot rod out of it. But this is a Norton forum...

I'm still being wishy-washy about the paint. There are a lot of good reasons to keep the original paint scheme. For one thing, chips don't show a different color. Still, I think the bike would be beautiful in Porsche white with gold decals and a gold pearl topcoat... Seventeen's 944 is white with crimson strips under the doors with PORSCHE showing through in white. It turns heads constantly; people often give him a "thumbs up" wave at traffic lights.

I plan to decide by tomorrow... unless I change my mind again.

Al

Click to expand...

I had an 85 1/2 944 for a while. I loved that thing, except the colour.....Kalahari Beige. Yuck!. And teh sunroof was a bit of a pain sometimes as it had the guts from the 1984 still. It was the most reliable car I've ever owned and it turned heads as well. Not bad for an old car and you're right, lot's more personality than a new car. After an all stainless exhaust, a chip and upgraded suspension with some 18" wheels off a 993 turbo it was a very fun car.

I did the opposite. I sold my 944 to buy a Norton.

I will own another Porsche some day and it will be a 968 or a 968 turbo if I can find one as I don't think too many turbos made it into Canada.

Click to expand...

I sold my first 944 (also an 85.5) to pay the hospital bill when Seventeen was born. I sold it to a friend who finally sold it with 300,000 miles on the odometer! I also swore I'd have another but never dreamed I'd have all these! 968s are very pretty but they're all loaded down with this new modern stuff. The '83 I'm about to start on (after the Norton) has a manual sunroof and no leaky power steering system! I think I'll use a chip and a good after-market system (like yours, stainless steel if I can afford it). It's hard to improve on anything else Porsche has designed. The '83 is black. All I need to do is polish it. Being indoors for almost twenty years has preserved the car nicely.

Al

Off the top of my head I think the day I gave my last Commando away (wish I still had it) it was on it's third frame and the only number it had that it came with was the engine case (welded up after I threw a rod.}
I have a few bikes int he garage with matching numbers. The Goldwings often don't get stuff changed until 140,000 miles or so, and I have a show police Chang with 74 kilometers.
My Norton doesn't even have a Commando frame anymore much less number. To me the story you told would add value to that bike, especially if you had pictures and such.
I brought the Norton back because it has family stories and good memories of my upbringing up in Maine. Americans don't seem to be good at keeping a history with a bike or car like many British folks do.

Hi, Guys!

I apologize for having left the story of the FB LR in the air for so long. However, it's even sadder to tell y'all of the decision I've made.

Eighteen decided there was no way, with the poor training he had had , that he could walk into a Motorcycle shop and claim to be able to work on customers' bikes. So he dropped the course (with an "A" average and returned to his College Prep program. I can't say I'm sorry, but wish the motorcycle course would have gone better.

I'm not going to attempt to finish the Commando Project. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the bike came back from the Tech School in pieces. Well... perhaps not that bad. The engine and the transmission have not been taken apart. Still, it is too much of a project for me to put it back together. Since I didn't take it apart, I have a lot of difficulty deciding exactly where things go. I could put it back together if it were an airhead BMW, but not the Norton with the limited number of tools I have.

I've invested a lot of money in the project: new exhaust system, new wiring harness, new Electronic Ignition, reupholstered seat, painted tank, seat cowl, sidecovers... I've researched and found that I can easily part out the bike on eBay for a few thousand dollars or more. I'd like to see the bike stay together since it is one-of-fifty or one-of-two=hundred (depending on which story is believed) so I believe I'll put the bike on eBay after the first of the year as a "basket case" and see where the bidding goes. If it doesn't make reserve, I'll part it out.

I'm sure I could find a better home for this bike which I've kept for over thirty years among the guys here on this website. I'd like to see it go to a proven restorer. I hope I haven't made an error in posting this here. If so, I apologize and encourage the monitors to remove it.

Cheers,
Tulsaalva

Wanting to find it a new home is what's important, Sorry to hear you had to change plans though. Someone will buy it and bring her back I believe, Once again sorry to hear. Have a Merry Christmas and a happy new year.