Rocker arms - sorry guys something to worry about

[DODGY DEN]

Last year decided to check tappets on inspection the rockers were stiff on the shafts so stripped the rockers out, a couple of bushes were loose in the rockers and showing signs of blueing and dry.
Got in touch with Theil, and they sent me 8 bushes and 4 new shafts which are a better quality. Pressed the new bushes in and got a local engineering company to hone the bushes to the new shafts. If the bushes move this cuts the oil supply to the rocker shafts and bushes.
I intend to check again to see if everything is ok, I will report back soon.
Dodgy Den.

Stripped the rocker shafts out this morning all the 8 bushes were showing no signs of being loose or blueing and were well lubricated so all ok. When I installed the new bushes and had them honed I asked the company if they could rifle the bushes but they declined, so I used a small hacksaw and put 3 minor groves in each bush. ( sorry purists). Changed the oil and added about 50ml of STP oil additive to the hot engine, used STP oil treatment in my Mini when racing never had an engine failure in 10 years racing.
Dodgy Den.

 

[City Garage]

I think this is an issue that was caused by the original designer, Dreer. He thought he would be saving weight by using the frame as an oil tank. This was a common idea with frame designers in the 60's. And the area where the tank normally went could house a small airbox to give the bike a svelte - wasp waist appearance. Everyone loves the visual effect of the open space below the airbox, so it was kept by SG.
There is not much in the 961's design that is truly innovative, it was mostly about classic appearance.

or made it a wet-sump bike like most modern sport bikes.....

 

[NortonDominator2020]

Yes 2 'thrust' washes but the side of the rocker is hardly a bearing surface.

New development just had Norton call me up (thanks Scott) who said that the new rockers will be available at £86 each. They are warrantied so I am thinking that New New Norton were aware of the rocker issue so these will be improved. And fit the shafts? Might be a bad move but it could be a way of finding out one way or another if they have changed. Worst case take a hit for the troops and they go to Thiel for his mods.

Clive, is it now possible to buy parts for the NEW Commando 961 from Norton?
Thanks

 

[Clive]

Clive, is it now possible to buy parts for the NEW Commando 961 from Norton?
Thanks

Sorry bit of a late reply - 961 wintered up while salt on the road and still waiting for rockers/shafts/washers from Norton. A new guy Geoff who seems keen enough is sorting them out for me. Sounds like most spare parts are still not available for new or old 961s. They are not going to be cheap - shafts are around £90 each (4 off) Washers are around £10 each (16? off) and no price on rockers yet. More reason to make sure yours are ok. All plus 20%vat. Yes could get Ollie to sort but one rocker is u/s so not just a matter of re-bushing and I am keen to see if the new 'improved' Norton ones fit.

Still can't get a definite answer on fitment - best I got was 'I wouldn't expect them not to fit'. I would love to have the time/money/ability to make new needle bearing rockers. We have 3d metal printing where I work but only in precious metals. Based on the shaft/washer prices when I get the cost of new rockers from Norton it might actually be cheaper to 3d print Platinum ones after all

 

[Fast Eddie]

At those prices one would have assumed they’d LOVE selling parts to y’all !!

 

[cliffa]

£10 for a washer?

I've enquired about a new front hub, but they perhaps understandably will only provide a complete wheel (which they don't have in stock at the moment). They haven't told me the price yet but if this is indicative I don't think I'll be able to afford it.

 

[Stu Bodycote]

Yeah, something like a hub you'd expect to buy as a complete sub-assembly.
To be fair, those prices for a complete rocker and engineered shim are to be expected. I wouldnt think anything of paying that money for Ducati parts, so goes without saying that Norton should be the same. Anyone want me to check what Norton used to buy them in for?

 

[TonyA]

£10 for a washer?

I've enquired about a new front hub, but they perhaps understandably will only provide a complete wheel (which they don't have in stock at the moment). They haven't told me the price yet but if this is indicative I don't think I'll be able to afford it.

I would be very interested to know what they will charge you for a wheel assy. Did they say it would come with the ABS timing discs or can those be removed ?

 

[cliffa]

I would be very interested to know what they will charge you for a wheel assy. Did they say it would come with the ABS timing discs or can those be removed ?

Hi Tony, so would I!! (communication has been, let's say rather sporadic) There was no mention of the ABS disc, and I presume that would be separate, but aren't they fitted to the brake rotor?

 

[TonyA]

Hi Tony, so would I!! (communication has been, let's say rather sporadic) There was no mention of the ABS disc, and I presume that would be separate, but aren't they fitted to the brake rotor?

Looks like are bolted on to the hub with spacer shims . So , good to be removed !

 

[Clive]

Yeah, something like a hub you'd expect to buy as a complete sub-assembly.
To be fair, those prices for a complete rocker and engineered shim are to be expected. I wouldnt think anything of paying that money for Ducati parts, so goes without saying that Norton should be the same. Anyone want me to check what Norton used to buy them in for?

Hi - no I definitely do not want to know how much they are bought in for - my blood pressure might not take it! Had a bit of a panic - while impressed with Geoff Fitchett's enthusiasm in sorting the parts out for me I suddenly received the snotty disclaimer message from Norton sent by Lewis and signed by Geoff which I interpreted as they are not willing to sell me parts after all. All enraged I was just describing the orifice and nature of insertion of TVS/Norton in a return email when he calls me up all chipper with details of the parts he can get for me. he is very sorry about the wording of the email - it was written by the legal goblins and has to be sent out to all enquiries such as mine. The real engineers cringe when sending it out and dislike it as much as the customers do. So yes they can sort me out. And the price for rocker/shafts/bolts/washers is £2142.

Each rocker costs around £400.

Now before it goes on ebay if anybody is interested I have a kidney in a really nice condition - one careful owner. Can be seen working.......
Would also complement a robust Malbec.


Like I said please don't let yours fall apart like mine for the sake of an inspection.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Hey, after all the complaining about lack of supplying parts… now they actually are, you’re simply not allowed to moan about the price !

 

[BritTwit]

Still can't get a definite answer on fitment - best I got was 'I wouldn't expect them not to fit'.

I like a cheeky or flippant response as well as the next guy, but given Norton's recent past, if I were a Norton employee today I might want to be a bit more precise or definite in my advice. If he doesn't know the answer, find someone at the factory who does know.
Really, good grief!

 

[EstuaryBoy]

I like a cheeky or flippant response as well as the next guy, but given Norton's recent past, if I were a Norton employee today I might want to be a bit more precise or definite in my advice. If he doesn't know the answer, find someone at the factory who does know.
Really, good grief!

TBH how can they???
If they didn't build Clive's bike then they would be at risk making any recommendation.
Sad but true given the nature of the situation.

 

[BritTwit]

But they have legacy 961 heads.
They inherited them from the failed SG venture.
Hell, they tested legacy motors to find their weak points in order to develop the NEW 961, no?
They can determine if the new parts properly fit the legacy heads.
And, if the factory is selling parts to a legacy 961 owner, they should understand this.

 

[Fast Eddie]

But they have legacy 961 heads.
They inherited them from the failed SG venture.
Hell, they tested legacy motors to find their weak points in order to develop the NEW 961, no?
They can determine if the new parts properly fit the legacy heads.
And, if the factory is selling parts to a legacy 961 owner, they should understand this.

They have already said this would be too difficult as they have inadequate records from SG area regarding running changes that were made etc.

Push too hard on this and you’re likely to persuade them to revert to a blanket ‘no sale’ policy IMHO…

 

[Stu Bodycote]

Hi - no I definitely do not want to know how much they are bought in for - my blood pressure might not take it! Had a bit of a panic - while impressed with Geoff Fitchett's enthusiasm in sorting the parts out for me I suddenly received the snotty disclaimer message from Norton sent by Lewis and signed by Geoff which I interpreted as they are not willing to sell me parts after all. All enraged I was just describing the orifice and nature of insertion of TVS/Norton in a return email when he calls me up all chipper with details of the parts he can get for me. he is very sorry about the wording of the email - it was written by the legal goblins and has to be sent out to all enquiries such as mine. The real engineers cringe when sending it out and dislike it as much as the customers do. So yes they can sort me out. And the price for rocker/shafts/bolts/washers is £2142.

Each rocker costs around £400.

Now before it goes on ebay if anybody is interested I have a kidney in a really nice condition - one careful owner. Can be seen working.......
Would also complement a robust Malbec.


Like I said please don't let yours fall apart like mine for the sake of an inspection.

I think that price reads more like "we don't want to sell you parts"

 

[BritTwit]

I think that price reads more like "we don't want to sell you parts"

What would be the comparable price if purchased from Ollie?

 

[Stu Bodycote]

Ollie will refurbish oe rockers, not supply replacements. I suspect he'll have something in the pipe line though, looking forwards.

 

[EstuaryBoy]

They have already said this would be too difficult as they have inadequate records from SG area regarding running changes that were made etc.

Push too hard on this and you’re likely to persuade them to revert to a blanket ‘no sale’ policy IMHO…

I would guess it's the legal bods pulling the strings as well...