***IMPORTANT PLEASE READ (but don't panic)***

[City Garage]

Wow, some of the comments here make me laugh. Let me clear this up and make a point here.

There are over 10 years of these being on the road, and just now this pops up. If it was such a major defect as all the people who don't own one but yet come here and post their "expertise" on the subject then why wasn't it discovered years ago? If someone came into the shop with a cracked hub and there are just a couple of anecdotal posts except like Cliffa who has photos of "actual" cracks then I would first look at other factors before I start with the sky is falling routine. Again, cracked hubs happen all the time.

So let's do this to stop the guessing game. Let's have a show of hands of who has cracks on their hubs. Please put the year and front or rear and please post your photos. Maybe start a new thread and pin it under something so it doesn't get cluttered.

Some also said Ollie had something like 10, but he hasn't chimed in yet.

Only a few people work on these motorcycles regularly, and my shop is one of them. I get bikes shipped to me from a dozen different states and have seen every model that has come to the USA. I have not seen any cracking on early bikes or on later bikes. We have repaired these wheels and replaced damaged rims, and not one has had a cracked hub, even after one bike had a taco'd rim from a pothole that should have eaten the whole bike. We had one carbon rim crack but that's it. I suspect that was from low tire pressure and a pothole. I also posted earlier that I had three bikes currently in the shop and again, nothing. I have a set of wheels from an early run bike that was raced and again nothing.

I've also talked to a few of the mechanics who worked at a couple of dealers, and again not one has heard or seen anything about hubs cracking. I do have some cases that have had the main bearings spin if you want to start that thread as well.

So again, before everyone starts a panic, let's see how many there actually are and, if so, see if we can truly narrow down the build year or years.

 

[Gojuu]

Wow, some of the comments here make me laugh. Let me clear this up and make a point here.

There are over 10 years of these being on the road, and just now this pops up. If it was such a major defect as all the people who don't own one but yet come here and post their "expertise" on the subject then why wasn't it discovered years ago? If someone came into the shop with a cracked hub and there are just a couple of anecdotal posts except like Cliffa who has photos of "actual" cracks then I would first look at other factors before I start with the sky is falling routine. Again, cracked hubs happen all the time.

So let's do this to stop the guessing game. Let's have a show of hands of who has cracks on their hubs. Please put the year and front or rear and please post your photos. Maybe start a new thread and pin it under something so it doesn't get cluttered.

Some also said Stu had something like 10, but he hasn't chimed in yet.

Only a few people work on these motorcycles regularly, and my shop is one of them. I get bikes shipped to me from a dozen different states and have seen every model that has come to the USA. I have not seen any cracking on early bikes or on later bikes. We have repaired these wheels and replaced damaged rims, and not one has had a cracked hub, even after one bike had a taco'd rim from a pothole that should have eaten the whole bike. We had one carbon rim crack but that's it. I suspect that was from low tire pressure and a pothole. I also posted earlier that I had three bikes currently in the shop and again, nothing. I have a set of wheels from an early run bike that was raced and again nothing.

I've also talked to a few of the mechanics who worked at a couple of dealers, and again not one has heard or seen anything about hubs cracking. I do have some cases that have had the main bearings spin if you want to start that thread as well.

So again, before everyone starts a panic, let's see how many there actually are and, if so, see if we can truly narrow down the build year or years.

Well, panic and potshots from non owners who seem to gloat over 961 issues........

 

[City Garage]

This is why I hope Norton will offer an alloy mag wheel option.
Laced wheels are prettier, but alloy mags require zero maintenance, and forged ones are virtually indestructible.

You are right but true magnesium race wheels are the same price or more than carbon. The problem with most mag or other alloy wheels for OEM is the manufacturers tend to make them beefier for an OEM versus what you can buy aftermarket for liability reasons, so they weigh a little more. Also, short-run stuff no matter what it is get expensive, so that gets you back to china or India, etc.

 

[City Garage]

Well, panic and potshots from non owners who seem to gloat over 961 issues........

So true...a 961 owner would never troll the commando forum

 

[TonyA]

You misunderstand me, I definitely will not risk my life on it. As I mentioned earlier I will not ride it as I deem it to be way too dangerous, and if I cannot get a replacement I will break the bike for spares as I could not knowingly sell it on in that condition. The Kineo wheels will cost over 3000 Euros, and although they have a lot of virtues, they are bloody ugly in my opinion.

Have you tried Birmingham Norton yet ? This should be the least expensive fix to get a 961 Commando Hub . The hubs on my 2014 are the early machined type . I wish I had the later cast type also , mine are not cracked (yet) ?

 

[Panetone]

I don´t understand the panic.
If you want to change the wheels, take wheels from an other bike and fit them into the 961.
No difficult job for a workshop.
If you want spoke wheels, you can use from some japanese bikes.
You can use also alloy wheels from other brands.
I have Moto Morini wheels in one of my Harely Davidson.
The Kineo wheels are expensive and not really nice, but they work are tubeless and they fit 1 to 1.
If you don´t want to fit wheels from other bikes, you can only use wheels which are made for the 961.
To fit wheels from other brands can use several hours to make all the spacers and so on, but it will work also.

 

[Stephen_Spencer]

What‘s funny about this thread is the number of references to the word panic, in the almost complete absence of it .……. panic that is! Just a few interested people looking to highlight a potential fault and resolve a technical failure, albeit quite a serious one (+ a little unsolicited hyperbole). I suppose it’s reasonably important though, if you have a bike with no front wheel!

There seem to be enough examples (I think it was Ollie that had seen 10 or so - two on the one bike) not to potentially dismiss this fault. Especially if there may have been overtightening during assembly. Always worth spending a little time investigating what might be a safety critical fault. It is a technical forum in the main.

 

[cliffa]

I don´t understand the panic.
If you want to change the wheels, take wheels from an other bike and fit them into the 961.
No difficult job for a workshop.
If you want spoke wheels, you can use from some japanese bikes.
You can use also alloy wheels from other brands.
I have Moto Morini wheels in one of my Harely Davidson.
The Kineo wheels are expensive and not really nice, but they work are tubeless and they fit 1 to 1.
If you don´t want to fit wheels from other bikes, you can only use wheels which are made for the 961.
To fit wheels from other brands can use several hours to make all the spacers and so on, but it will work also.

To be clear there is no panic from my side. I was simply passing on information. You mentioned earlier that you have already had two hubs replaced but didn’t bother to tell anyone else. I find that disappointing to be honest.

Of course fitting wheels from other bikes is an option. I’m not sure what it’s like in Germany or other countries but here in Switzerland it is very difficult to legally modify bikes yourself. For example when I imported my 1974 Commando it was fitted with a much improved Norvil front brake, however I was forced to remove that and revert to the pretty poor original brake as the adapter plate and disc had no TüV approval.

I agree with kommando that as the machining of the hub has obviously been taken way too close to the spoke sockets the machining grooves are causing stress risers. If the sidewalls were left thicker I don’t think it would have been an issue. Maybe these hubs were not originally intended to take that size of spoke and were drilled to suit. Maybe some machined hubs have thicker sidewalls? Who knows. Like City Garage said folks need to check theirs report back and then maybe a pattern can be seen.


Anyway, I have been in touch with Norton by phone and email, explained the situation and shared the link to this thread and am waiting for a reply.

 

[City Garage]

What‘s funny about this thread is the number of references to the word panic, in the almost complete absence of it .……. panic that is! Just a few interested people looking to highlight a potential fault and resolve a technical failure, albeit quite a serious one (+ a little unsolicited hyperbole). I suppose it’s reasonably important though, if you have a bike with no front wheel!

There seem to be enough examples (I think it was Ollie that had seen 10 or so - two on the one bike) not to potentially dismiss this fault. Especially if there may have been overtightening during assembly. Always worth spending a little time investigating what might be a safety critical fault. It is a technical forum in the main.

Let's start with the thread title IN ALL CAPS!

***IMPORTANT PLEASE READ***​

Then it gets pinned to the very top.

then some of the comments.

Should be a safety recall campaign in a sane world.

, "Pretty alarming to hear that Ollie has changed so many fronts out"

People in the US should report that here: https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem#index

plus other comments can lead people to worry more than needed, plus depreciate a motorcycle that many paid top dollar for. So my posts are to stop some of that and bring expertise into the thread before it gets out of hand.


I ask the simple question. HOW MANY MOTORCYCLES HAS THIS OCCURRED ON? WHAT YEAR? FRONT OR REAR? COUNTRY WOULD BE HELPFUL


A few have said Ollie has had 10. I would think with his expertise, he would have shared all that prior to this thread and maybe offered his opinion on the cause. Not calling out Ollie but people are using his name to say this is an issue so as a shop owner Id love to hear and see what examples he has, and I am sure so does anyone else who works on these motorcycles.

Our shop experience shows something different than what has been reported here, and to again make my point these have been on the road for a while now and over 10 YEARS LATER now something may or may not have happened.

Think about that from a simple point of view. People bought these motorcycles and rode them. Many are high mileage and yet where were the complaints of hubs cracking in the first year? Second year? Fifth year, etc? Maybe roads, where they happened, are rougher than US roads, does mileage have something to do with it? Was it earlier year bikes? Did any of the owners actually check spoke tension like you are supposed to via maintenance? Potholes? Riding with lower tire pressure?

As a shop, If I had 10 cracked hubs come through the door on any motorcycle, I would immediately tell every customer that owned a spoke wheel version to change their wheels regardless of cracks or not.


So until it's an issue this should just be a normal thread asking people if they have similar issues to report back. and then, ONLY THEN, does this need to get pinned or all capped etc.

 

[Voodooo]

Let's start with the thread title IN ALL CAPS!

***IMPORTANT PLEASE READ***​

Then it gets pinned to the very top.

then some of the comments.

Should be a safety recall campaign in a sane world.

, "Pretty alarming to hear that Ollie has changed so many fronts out"

People in the US should report that here: https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem#index

plus other comments can lead people to worry more than needed, plus depreciate a motorcycle that many paid top dollar for. So my posts are to stop some of that and bring expertise into the thread before it gets out of hand.


I ask the simple question. HOW MANY MOTORCYCLES HAS THIS OCCURRED ON? WHAT YEAR? FRONT OR REAR? COUNTRY WOULD BE HELPFUL


A few have said Stu has had 10. I would think with his expertise, he would have shared all that prior to this thread and maybe offered his opinion on the cause. Not calling out Stu but people are using his name to say this is an issue so as a shop owner Id love to hear and see what examples he has, and I am sure so does anyone else who works on these motorcycles.

Our shop experience shows something different than what has been reported here, and to again make my point these have been on the road for a while now and over 10 YEARS LATER now something may or may not have happened.

Think about that from a simple point of view. People bought these motorcycles and rode them. Many are high mileage and yet where were the complaints of hubs cracking in the first year? Second year? Fifth year, etc? Maybe roads, where they happened, are rougher than US roads, does mileage have something to do with it? Was it earlier year bikes? Did any of the owners actually check spoke tension like you are supposed to via maintenance? Potholes? Riding with lower tire pressure?

As a shop, If I had 10 cracked hubs come through the door on any motorcycle, I would immediately tell every customer that owned a spoke wheel version to change their wheels regardless of cracks or not.


So until it's an issue this should just be a normal thread asking people if they have similar issues to report back. and then, ONLY THEN, does this need to get pinned or all capped etc.

Shame on you for trying to be positive and optimistic
I’d of thought someone who’s so deep into supporting Norton would see it as you do.

I can’t imagine overreacting to be a good source of support.

Perhaps TVS’s claim of 35% improvements included each spoke, 2 hubs and 2 rims per each bike.

 

[cliffa]

I've updated the thread title

 

[Stephen_Spencer]

Shame on you for trying to be positive and optimistic
I’d of thought someone who’s so deep into supporting Norton would see it as you do.

I can’t imagine overreacting to be a good source of support.

Perhaps TVS’s claim of 35% improvements included each spoke, 2 hubs and 2 rims per each bike.

Missed! But done with only mild negative connotations - well done mate! See, you can do it!

 

[cliffa]

Another broken hub reported on the Facebook group. (not panicking just informing)

2011 bike.

 

[City Garage]

Another broken hub reported on the Facebook group. (not panicking just informing)

2011 bike.

So far then only 2010-2011. If possible find out the mileage and front/rear from the facebook person.

 

[cliffa]

So far then only 2010-2011. If possible find out the mileage and front/rear from the Facebook person.

Unfortunately the folks on Facebook have not posted any updates on their issues or replied to any question I asked. Not so social media eh?

Anyway for me this particular issue is over as I managed to buy a set of later wheels. I did just want to post pics of another thing I spotted today on my old front wheel...

It looks as though the rim has been drilled at the wrong angle in some places and the nipple cannot get far enough over to point directly at the spoke socket, so the spokes have been bent to get the nipples on. To be honest it's the first wheel I've ever looked so closely at so it may not be unusual. With the discs mounted you only see a bit of the spokes, but without them it's quite plain to see though.

 

[marshg246]

Unfortunately the folks on Facebook have not posted any updates on their issues or replied to any question I asked. Not so social media eh?

Anyway for me this particular issue is over as I managed to buy a set of later wheels. I did just want to post pics of another thing I spotted today on my old front wheel...


View attachment 103712View attachment 103713

It looks as though the rim has been drilled at the wrong angle in some places and the nipple cannot get far enough over to point directly at the spoke socket, so the spokes have been bent to get the nipples on. To be honest it's the first wheel I've ever looked so closely at so it may not be unusual. With the discs mounted you only see a bit of the spokes, but without them it's quite plain to see though.

Or laced into the wrong holes. It appears in the left picture like both visible spoke ends are in wrong holes. It may be off all the way around - look at every 4th spoke and see if they have the same issue.

 

[cliffa]

Or laced into the wrong holes. It appears in the left picture like both visible spoke ends are in wrong holes. It may be off all the way around - look at every 4th spoke and see if they have the same issue.

I need to take a closer look tomorrow, but it seems quite random at first glance.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Bent spokes being the cause of the cracked hub was mentioned waaay back in post #5 Cliffa.

Your recent pics certainly reinforce that hypothesis.

What the actual root cause of the bent spokes is though, ie incorrect rim or drillings, or assembly error of some kind, I guess we don’t yet know…

 

[cliffa]

Bent spokes being the cause of the cracked hub was mentioned waaay back in post #5 Cliffa.

Your recent pics certainly reinforce that hypothesis.

What the actual root cause of the bent spokes is though, ie incorrect rim or drillings, or assembly error of some kind, I guess we don’t yet know…

As the holes drilled in the hub are drilled at 90º to the axle the spokes do need a set in them so they can angle toward the centre of the rim. In post #5 you can see that the set appears start inside the socket so the socket has a tapered exit and is also countersunk removing even more material. If you compare it to the picture of my Himalayan in post #35 that set is well outside the spoke socket so the hole in the socket doesn't need to be opened out to compensate for the early bend. As far as I can tell doesn't seem to be a pattern to the misaligned spokes. Personally I reckon the Morad rim is drilled for a conventional hub. I did notice that the Talon hub seems to have provision for a mechanical speedo drive tangs, giving more reason to believe this hub was not originally designed for the 961. Basically it's a fustercluck.

 

[City Garage]

Unfortunately the folks on Facebook have not posted any updates on their issues or replied to any question I asked. Not so social media eh?

Anyway for me this particular issue is over as I managed to buy a set of later wheels. I did just want to post pics of another thing I spotted today on my old front wheel...


View attachment 103712View attachment 103713

It looks as though the rim has been drilled at the wrong angle in some places and the nipple cannot get far enough over to point directly at the spoke socket, so the spokes have been bent to get the nipples on. To be honest it's the first wheel I've ever looked so closely at so it may not be unusual. With the discs mounted you only see a bit of the spokes, but without them it's quite plain to see though.

We had a bike that the rim shifted, causing some out-of-round condition and I won't say bent spokes, but they were leaning a bit. Wish we had some earlier bikes to look at.

I appreciate your follow up. Would like to get to the bottom of that but right now its still more "isolated" than anything.