Rebuilt the Sunburst

[Fast Eddie]

Comnoz did a video a few years ago using (I think) STP or some similar oil addictive on valves during assembly, they seized up !

Hence Baz’s question...

 

[baz]

Comnoz did a video a few years ago using (I think) STP or some similar oil addictive on valves during assembly, they seized up !

Hence Baz’s question...

Yep that's why I asked but it's probably nothing
I did once read of someone using a bit of chain lube during assembly because that was all that was at hand
And the result was when then motor got up to temperature the valves got stuck open
I'm not sure if the story was true
But it's something to think about

 

[maylar]

I did once read of someone using a bit of chain lube during assembly because that was all that was at hand

I used chain lube once on the rear chain adjusters because I had the can in my hand. It solidified like Loctite and I ended up snapping the adjuster screw on one side, requiring a drill and tap to remedy.

 

[Fast Eddie]

A mate of mine used chain lube on his cables !

New cables were required afterwards...

 

[yves norton seeley]

HI Baz,
In fact I dont know, I must ask Werner, the man that did the flowing, he disambel and rebuilt the head.
When I put the engine togheter I use special asembly lube;
I will call Werner this evening to ask.
Keep you posted
Yves

Hi Baz,
I just call Werner the flowman: he use engine oil.
Yves

 

[ashman]

I have been using STP in my engine oil for over 40 years on my Norton and have had no problems at all, on rebuild I have used oil/STP for assembly but didn't use any STP on the guides, a lot of people might think its bad to use STP but I have used STP on all my old British bikes and have also got long life out of my motor and bores, my Norton has over 160k miles on it, I am still running std slipper rod bearing size and when I replaced the main bearings the old ones still look like new after a long life.
2 ltr motor oil plus 250 ml of STP mix I run a 3 ltr round alloy oil tank and Lochead oil cooler without themo.

Ashley

 

[Fast Eddie]

I have been using STP in my engine oil for over 40 years on my Norton and have had no problems at all, on rebuild I have used oil/STP for assembly but didn't use any STP on the guides, a lot of people might think its bad to use STP but I have used STP on all my old British bikes and have also got long life out of my motor and bores, my Norton has over 160k miles on it, I am still running std slipper rod bearing size and when I replaced the main bearings the old ones still look like new after a long life.
2 ltr motor oil plus 250 ml of STP mix I run a 3 ltr round alloy oil tank and Lochead oil cooler without themo.

Ashley

That’s cool, keep using it then!

The only reason for mentioning it earlier was that some people have used it for purpose for which it was not intended, like assembly paste / lube, including on valve guides. Comnoz simply pointed out that that is a bad idea!

FWIW I used to use STP too, but stopped as it created an unpleasant looking sludge / gloop in the oil tank. I don’t know if this was actually a problem in reality or not, but I didn’t like what I saw, so stopped using it.

 

[gortnipper]

Stuck valve

I recently had a case of a new valve sticking in a new guide after only a few minutes of operation. I was confident of the guide clearance and the assembly was well done. The only difference seemed to be the prelube used for assembly. It had been assembled with STP and oil as a prelube. That...

www.accessnorton.com

 

[ashman]

That’s cool, keep using it then!

The only reason for mentioning it earlier was that some people have used it for purpose for which it was not intended, like assembly paste / lube, including on valve guides. Comnoz simply pointed out that that is a bad idea!

FWIW I used to use STP too, but stopped as it created an unpleasant looking sludge / gloop in the oil tank. I don’t know if this was actually a problem in reality or not, but I didn’t like what I saw, so stopped using it.

I won't change as it works for me and have got long life out of my motors, as for sludge/gloop in the bottom of the oil tank I have seen that with just normal oil and when I brought my Norton new the recondmended oil was GTX, what a mess that made to inside of the engine cases and sludge in the oil tank, after a year or so years I started to use straight 50 Penzioil and the Norton loved it ran cooler as well.

Ashley

 

[yves norton seeley]

Stuck valve

I recently had a case of a new valve sticking in a new guide after only a few minutes of operation. I was confident of the guide clearance and the assembly was well done. The only difference seemed to be the prelube used for assembly. It had been assembled with STP and oil as a prelube. That...

www.accessnorton.com

Stuck valve

I recently had a case of a new valve sticking in a new guide after only a few minutes of operation. I was confident of the guide clearance and the assembly was well done. The only difference seemed to be the prelube used for assembly. It had been assembled with STP and oil as a prelube. That...

www.accessnorton.com

I won't change as it works for me and have got long life out of my motors, as for sludge/gloop in the bottom of the oil tank I have seen that with just normal oil and when I brought my Norton new the recondmended oil was GTX, what a mess that made to inside of the engine cases and sludge in the oil tank, after a year or so years I started to use straight 50 Penzioil and the Norton loved it ran cooler as well.

Ashley

I can reassure you right away, in 52 years of motorcycling, I have never used additives.
The only thing I use is Assembly Lube from Red Line.
But in this case, it is not possible for the Red Line to act like the STP as in the J.C. video.
I remind you that I fitted the valves in the cylinder head with Red Line, but that afterwards, Werner dismantled the whole to make the flowing, after he reassembled the valves with engine oil, nothing more!
So for me the mystery remains whole and I don't like it.
I haven't tried the Seeley on the road yet, but I'm scared.
This week I only worked four days a week, one sick day in bed and one day with my lawyer for my accident.
I still feel like I'm taking two steps forward and one step back, but hey I still have a few hours of work to finish the electric loom.
I hope to do a road test this week.
Keep you posted
Yves

 

[gortnipper]

I wasn't implying you used additive, simply responded to others comments regarding STP and pre lube.

Rest up and do it in your good time.

 

[storm42]

Hi Yves, in post 191, you mentioned having to use nearly all of the available adjustment of your valve clearance screws due to the pushrods being a bit short.

This would suggest that the angle of the rocker to valve may be out, could this have caused the valves to touch each other when in the overlap position and allow the pushrod to dislodge? Even if that isn't the case, it might be worth addressing the issue as there is a chance of increased guide ware with an incorrect rocker angle to valve relationship.

Just thinking out loud as it is always difficult to diagnose problems remotely.

You could check the clearance between the valves when they are closest together (usually around TDC) with a piece of bent wire through the plug hole, I think Jim Schmidt suggests a minimum of 40 thou clearance (I use a piece of welding rod filed to 40 thou, if it goes between the valves I'm good to go)

 

[yves norton seeley]

Hi Yves, in post 191, you mentioned having to use nearly all of the available adjustment of your valve clearance screws due to the pushrods being a bit short.

This would suggest that the angle of the rocker to valve may be out, could this have caused the valves to touch each other when in the overlap position and allow the pushrod to dislodge? Even if that isn't the case, it might be worth addressing the issue as there is a chance of increased guide ware with an incorrect rocker angle to valve relationship.

Just thinking out loud as it is always difficult to diagnose problems remotely.

You could check the clearance between the valves when they are closest together (usually around TDC) with a piece of bent wire through the plug hole, I think Jim Schmidt suggests a minimum of 40 thou clearance (I use a piece of welding rod filed to 40 thou, if it goes between the valves I'm good to go)

I thought about this possibility, I looked through the spark plug hole and I do not see a trace on the intake valve. I have to find an endoscope to see the two valves.
According to Werner there is plenty of play between the valves to be saved.
I believe the rocker arm geometry is good, the Maney cylinder has the original height and the Fullauto cylinder head has not been planed.
There is no cylinder gasket and the copper head gasket is 0.5mm.
Jim Schmidt pushrods are 1mm shorter, this must compensate for the lack of cylinder gasket and the thinness of the head gasket.
Tomorrow I will ask Fabien to take pictures.
Keep you posted
Yves

 

[yves norton seeley]

Hi there,
Here be the pics from the rockers and adjustement screws.
Feel free to give me your opinion please.

To day I finish the wiring, last thing to do is to connect the E speedo.
I will not try the bike on the road before I can take a look to the valves with a endoscope,
I order a endoscope that you can connect to a smartphone.
Keep you posted
Yves

 

[baz]

View attachment 79204

View attachment 79205

View attachment 79206

Hi there,
Here be the pics from the rockers and adjustement screws.
Feel free to give me your opinion please.

To day I finish the wiring, last thing to do is to connect the E speedo.
I will not try the bike on the road before I can take a look to the valves with a endoscope,
I order a endoscope that you can connect to a smartphone.
Keep you posted
Yves

Looks good to me

 

[storm42]

And me.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Me too...

Although I’m surprised at all that weight Yves !!

 

[ludwig]

Yves, when I adjusted the valves, I noticed that the rockers hit the exhaust valves very near to the inside edge, but that is common, so nothing to worry about. I did not assemble the engine, so could not know about the misplaced pushrod.
Lightening and polishing rockers is nice, but of little value.

 

[yves norton seeley]

Me too...

Although I’m surprised at all that weight Yves !!

Lightening and polishing rockers is physiological tuning to me

 

[Saber]

Yves, no jokes today?