V4CR LAUNCH

EstuaryBoy said:
Out of idle curiosity, are any Donington V4s being ridden on the road??
Or did TVS's very public damnation of them make them uninsurable???
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Yep, some in use...the one I have in now is just in for a service. The owner absolutely adores his bike, regardless of the bad press that they received during the past couple of years.
 
I think that TVS went with what they had to get something produced, which is why they rolled out the 961 and this V4. I'm hoping they did so to buy time to roll out another product that will sell more to the "I can afford it" crowd again.

The problem with my "thought" is that there is not one whisper of anything on the way from a single source inside the factory.

Also, I know I'm a broken record, but how many of the "new" 961's have actually been sold? And why aren't they here on the forum? Sharing a few from Facebook etc, doesn't equate to much.

The brand "excitement" from 2010 has worn off, and when you look at the average age of the forum member, you are starting to age out, so selling new Norton products is going to be a tough sell. TVS made the big mistake of not keeping up with the times and informing people about what was going on. They could have produced a whole series of videos of "behind the scenes" and "how its made" while they were going through getting everything ready for the rollout of each bike over the last few years. Meetings, design conversations, what does and doesn't work, all that would have been great to watch and keep everyone "excited" about what TVS was doing. Now everyone is really like...whatever, blah blah blah. Its a fucking waste of a good opportunity.

And regarding the V4, I bet they don't sell all 200 of them at full price.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
Nah, not buying into that at all. You don't rip off people over a ten year period, that publicly....this aint the 1980s. It was just badly managed, with the people and resources available imo. Before you know it you're in too deep, and just this one last cash injection will save us mindset. When in reality it needed a huge cash injection along with a huge injection of previous experience.
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I agree, he spent too much personal time on this and was hoping to be the guy that brought it back. I also agree he didn't really understand the money involved with bringing a new motorcycle to market.

He should have watched Birth of a Racer by Michael Czysz. If you haven't watched it, I suggest you do so.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
They

I really can't see where the £42k has gone tbh. They "inherited" the V4 when they bought the company. The previous reasoning for the price tag was its a bike developed at the TT over several generations of race bike etc etc blah blah blah. But TVS have done none of that, they've just picked up where Norton left off, essentially with a bike that was 75% there. For me, it's still a beutiful bike and if the TVS version rides like the Donington version, then the chassis will have excellent road manners....hopefully they've tuned the fueling though, as that was pretty "raw" (a term used by journalists when they're saying something aint finished yet).
TVS do need to improve on the visuals of their welds and polishing though. Skinner designed the fairing to cut away in key areas to highlight the welds, as they were worth showing off. It looks as though some of that detail and thought has been lost.
First picture is a V4ss I currently have in for work, second picture is a Brummie-Norton V4 weld.
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Agreed ref development - although I wonder just how time consuming and expensive it was to re-engineer (compared to initially develop). No economies of scale so the price is set with a reasonable margin, or they are overpriced.

I guess if they sell the lot, they got the pricing right (simplistic I know). If not, it’s likely overpriced because I don’t really see to many other impediment to sale. My opinion only:

- Aesthetics: looks pretty drop dead gorgeous to me. I think Donington Norton really did get this spot on. Don’t think Birmingham changed much aesthetically?

- Performance: a marginal performance deficit may worry some but not many of these are heading for the track and ya can’t use that sorta power on the road. The marque and appearance of the machine will likely be more important to prospective buyers. Of course they ain’t marketing it as a track missile.

- Reliability: still unknown but Norton appear to have done lots of testing. Most sensible buyers will have dismissed previous reliability issues with the memory of Garner.

I guess then - generally speaking - if they sell the price was right, if they don’t, well, it wasn’t!

C6F68AB8-9F0B-4F21-94E9-F1DE0D3EC24B.jpeg

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Early Garner model - Ok, I guess they changed the aesthetics quite a bit!
 
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Between those two pictures, they've only changed the colour and the wheels. The bottom one has BST carbon wheels, the top one OZ wheels. Both were available from Donington, in fact the first one off production had res OZ wheels. They've dropped the chrome Donington finish, and gone for Manx silver (or what ever they call it now)....a wise move imo as the chrome finish, wrapped or coated (it wasn't a paint...it was more akin to the silver used on mirrors), caused lots of issues.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
Nah, not buying into that at all. You don't rip off people over a ten year period, that publicly....this aint the 1980s. It was just badly managed, with the people and resources available imo. Before you know it you're in too deep, and just this one last cash injection will save us mindset. When in reality it needed a huge cash injection along with a huge injection of previous experience.
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Amazing to have an opinion from someone who was there - thanks for sharing it.
 
For what it's worth, TVS moved up to 6th place of ALL M/C manufacturers worldwide in 2022, and they'll likely overtake Bajaj for 5th this year. They DO know full well what they are doing. They have very successful small-displacement bikes and this will move them up a few notches once they settle in (in my opinion)

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In 2022, Honda sold 17.5 million two wheeler globally (+5.6%) with 29.1% of market share, near 5 points below the 2016 level. We see the risk for Honda to keep losing market share as consequence of the current strategy to postpone electric models introduction, leaving space to emerging brands to keep space and reputation in this crucial and booming segment.

The second place in the global ranking is really a surprise. After being surpassed in 2021 by the roaring Chinese EVs specialist Yadea, the Indian Hero Motor re-gained the position thanks to 5.4 million sales (+4.9%) obtained for the most in India, while the Chinese competitor is struggling due to the difficulties of the Chinese market (for covid shut downs).

Indeed Yadea, is now third with 5.0 million sales (-17.3%). This fall must be considered a temporary trouble as the manufacturer is leader in the electric vehicles R&D and manufacturing and will be back on growing track already in the second half.

In fourth place there is Yamaha with 4.5 million (+7.2%). Yamaha market share at 7.5% is 5 points below the 2012 achievement.

Struggling both at home and overseas, Bajaj Auto was able to defend the 5th place with 3.0 million sales (-2.9%), with a short advantage over the fast growing and Indian rival TVS Motor, which sold 2.8 million (+15.3%).
 
Let me ask you this.

Let’s say you bought a new V4. You take it to a local bike meet and people look at it. You’re proud of your ownership. ( It is a beautiful piece of art work. )
People start asking questions about it.

Yep it’s a Norton.
Yep not many heard of Norton or others don’t / didn’t even know they were making bikes since the 1970s.
They ask about numbers.
Imagine the look on their face when they hear those numbers. Yep. Price and HP.

You may not use that 185 hp, but someone can and will.
And for $46k you can get more for less.

I know I know, it’s a Norton.

But, on Nortons website they talk the V4 up like it’s won the TT.

Shouldn’t a race inspired bike be just that?
Look at all the other bikes that can be had with 185+ hp, less weight, less money.
All from companies that have a reputation and a winning reputation.
Neither of which TVS Norton has.

206 kg / 454 pounds And 185 hp? For a bike that takes its roots from the race track?

Since when did TVS go racing and when was it with the v4?
 

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Stu Bodycote said:
Between those two pictures, they've only changed the colour and the wheels. The bottom one has BST carbon wheels, the top one OZ wheels. Both were available from Donington, in fact the first one off production had res OZ wheels. They've dropped the chrome Donington finish, and gone for Manx silver (or what ever they call it now)....a wise move imo as the chrome finish, wrapped or coated (it wasn't a paint...it was more akin to the silver used on mirrors), caused lots of issues.
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How much were the Donington v4 bikes when sold?
 
Yea they didnt win the TT but they did have 2 top ten finishes in 2018 which is a phenomenal success at the TT.
 
speirmoor said:
Yea they didnt win the TT but they did have 2 top ten finishes in 2018 which is a phenomenal success at the TT.
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Correct. But TVS didn’t have anything to do with that and haven’t since they owned Norton.
 
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BritTwit said:
I think it's OK for TVS/Norton to say that their V4 pays homage to the Donington TT racer.
They're not saying that they won the TT, just that the V4 celebrates their effort in the TT.
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Regarding the VCR I would have one if they gave me one but to expensive for what it is also does not have the character that a Norton should have IMO looks to blocky not enough engine showing. The V4 looks great but again to expensive. They could cut a couple of cylinders off to make a 600 and put it in a Dominator look alike frame and price accordingly, I wonder if they watch these threads.
 
DODGY DEN said:
Regarding the VCR I would have one if they gave me one but to expensive for what it is also does not have the character that a Norton should have IMO looks to blocky not enough engine showing. The V4 looks great but again to expensive. They could cut a couple of cylinders off to make a 600 and put it in a Dominator look alike frame and price accordingly, I wonder if they watch these threads.
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Norton has always floated around this and the Facebook pages, Donington and Solihull.
 
DODGY DEN said:
Regarding the VCR I would have one if they gave me one but to expensive for what it is also does not have the character that a Norton should have IMO looks to blocky not enough engine showing. The V4 looks great but again to expensive. They could cut a couple of cylinders off to make a 600 and put it in a Dominator look alike frame and price accordingly, I wonder if they watch these threads.
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Isn‘t that pretty much what the Nomad / Superlight range was… that TVS publicly canned ?
 
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