The birth of a Seeley Norton

Well that is all for this year with the Seeley. The Beezumph rally run by the TR3OC is an event that can be a bit marginal concerning the weather, it is by the sea on Anglesey in Wales and is a bit exposed to the elements. But this year it has done its bit to convince people that it isn't always raining in England.



The bike ran well and the only things that went wrong was the bikes aversion to apexes, and I ran out of fuel towards the end of the day, oops.



The bike still doesn't feel mine but I think with a bit of work on the front end and I might try some slightly stronger springs at the back, I also need to shorten the foot pegs as they started to touch down , I think I will get the bike to feel a lot better, next year now though.



The video below will show those that haven't been to Anglesey what the track is like. Somehow some open class bikes were let out with us old farts, I don't think R1s and the like should be out with classic bikes ( shows how slow we are ) but in the end there wasn't a problem.

And FastEddie, where were you ??

acotrel said:

Was that what whizzed past you so quickly towards the end of your video. Whatever it was seemed to be extremely rapid. Your own bike was not going slow.

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acotrel said:

Was that what whizzed past you so quickly towards the end of your video. Whatever it was seemed to be extremely rapid. Your own bike was not going slow.

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Not sure what that was, some sort of race stinkwheels, TZ250 maybe.

Ralph, on Friday and Saturday I was in bed with man-flu!

Sorry to have let you down sir. Hope you flew the flag for THC proudly ?

Sounds like we both have a winter of tweaks planned. Am looking forward to next year already. We should try and do more...

Fast Eddie said:

Ralph, on Friday and Saturday I was in bed with man-flu!

Sorry to have let you down sir. Hope you flew the flag for THC proudly ?

Sounds like we both have a winter of tweaks planned. Am looking forward to next year already. We should try and do more...

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Oh dear, hope you are feeling better, was a good weekend. The THC flag was a minimum of 3/4 mast and next year it will be off the top of the pole

I was talking to Frank Melling and it looks like the ThunderFest time trial would be a good event, it is at Darley Moor next year but we would need to be on the ball for entries as they are limited.

Better now thanks Ralph, just the residual effects.

Been playing with my footrests, 2:1 pipe and front mudguards.

And have been in coms with Maxton. Looks like I’ll be needing a bit more overtime...

You bike looks as though it is handling differently compared with your previous video. I think I see what you mean about the apexes of the corners. Stiffer rear springs would probably make it worse depending on the trail. If you have the right rake and enough trail, if you gas the bike when cranked over, it should self-steer slightly in the right direction and tighten it's line. Your bike seems to be trying to go wider.

I don’t think it is handling differently, probably mostly me but there are a couple of things I need to improve though and turn in on the brakes is the main one, once that is sorted I can get round to learning the tracks. It’s all just a bit of fun though so not the end of the world.

Perhaps you were not used to the circuit ? I find the best way to get my Seeley around corners is to brake before them up to about a third of the way in, and accelerate around them. If your bike tightens it's line as the rear squats, the corners become faster and easier. If it tends to run wide in corners, you will always go slower. But getting more onto the gas might make the difference. I always choose somewhere I can crash safely, before trying it.

One thing I found with my bike, is that when it had too much yoke offset (not enough trail), it was difficult to turn into corners. In fact it used to actually rise out of it's lean under braking. If your Seeley is a Minnovation bike, it might be worth speaking to Kenny Cummins about it's handling. I once saw a page where he listed the yoke offset he uses. That page has disappeared, but what he specified was similar to what I use.
I really enjoy reading about what you are doing with your bike. You are actually flying the flag for Seeley Commandos.

I might make a number plate for the bike and take it out round Derbyshire, I am not to bothered about tracks but I may take it to Chimay next year and enter the race there, we have just got back from Chimay and I may be off to Gedinne next month to watch the racing there and to see about getting a race licence for the Belgium road racing, getting it right for the road rather than the track would become quite important then.

In Chimay I had the pleasure of meeting Yves and had a good look round his Norton, very nice.

Wouldn't a Seeley Commando be a waste on public roads ? How would you ever use it in the way God intended, if there are speed limits ? One good squirt in first gear and you would probably get booked. I think your racing efforts are excellent, however you probably need to find a decent race class to suit your bike - always a problem !
If we were racing for sheep stations, I would not be riding a Seeley Commando - a two-stroke is much easier, but not something I enjoy.
Some of my friends have suggested I should register my Seeley and put it on the road. To me that seems extremely retrograde. I would probably end up shooting myself in frustration.

Ha, I am not sure Collin Seeley would be happy about being demoted to a mythical deity but if I am to race on road circuits like Chimay or Gedinne then I need to make the bike work on the road.


I know the Seeley is a race oriented frame design and they were raced on public roads with good success, but they are still a 60s design, against other 60s designed bikes they were right up there, but now, on the road with the best rider in the world they wouldn't stay with the second best rider on a modern 600 road bike. Yes power plays a part in that but modern suspension allows modern brakes to take modern rubber to the edge, the Seeley on modern rubber needs work.


If you go to Maxton for suspension they will ask you what the intended use of the bike is, and you would get a very different setup for track use than you would for the Isle of Man. I know I won't be running anywhere near the front but I don't want to get up close and personal with a tree because the front wheel has left the floor whilst on the brake because I haven't took time to get the suspension working over public road style bumps. As for getting booked in first, second gear makes that problem dissapear


Your Seeley would need work to make it work as a road bike but I think Yves has proved it is possible, he has built a bike that he rides long distances on the road and after spending some time with him at Chimay I know that he wouldn't have the enthusiasm that he has for his bike if it was a pig to ride on the road. He is happy with the power the handling and the brakes and if you spend any time near his bike it is obvious from the amount of people taking photographs that it is a winner in the looks department as well.

I have a severe psychological problem which stops me from wanting to ride the Seeley on public roads. As soon as the motor starts, I am never going to crash again and I have to ride the bike fast.
What need is a race class which is BOTT for bikes with aircooled motors. But it is never going to happen. The fact that my Seeley is 60s bike is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the design is a good answer which has not been surpassed by many modern twin cylinder bikes with aircooled motors. With a torquey twin cylnder bike, the big tyres and large suspension travel which suit the wide line in corners, are pretty much un-necessary and don't achieve much. The Seeley is a different concept from a different era, however it actually works extremely well.
I have no problem racing against modern bikes of similar capacity, as long as they are not two-strokes or four-strokes with more than two air-cooled cylinders.

If you think about road racing, it is interesting to consider the bikes which are NOT commonly raced. There are absolutely heaps of twin cylinder four-strokes with air-cooled motors. And many of them are relatively cheap.

acotrel said:

If you think about road racing, it is interesting to consider the bikes which are NOT commonly raced. There are absolutely heaps of twin cylinder four-strokes with air-cooled motors. And many of them are relatively cheap.

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There's also any number of reasons those bikes AREN'T raced!

Maybe an aircooled twin is all we need, we might just need to set it up like the winner of this race

I never see anyone except for about two guys, ever race an air-cooled Ducati in Australia. And Monsters are relatively cheap. One of those would make a lovely racer in the right class. There is one guy with an SD900 bevel who runs in Period 5 against the Z1 Kawasakis and those Harris-framed Suzukis. To me, he is in the wrong place. Also there is a guy who races a Seeley G50 against Japanese two strokes in Period 4 while all the Manxes are in Period 3. The whole historic thing seems pretty silly and it really pisses me off. I used to raced before this historic bullshit started in 1973 - the racing was actually better- at least we had capacity classes and rider grading back then. I used to get decent rides even in Allpowers races with my 500cc Triton which was totally outclassed - by capacity difference.
Anyone who ever raced back then will tell you a similar story. The whole scene has changed and not for the better. As far as riders go, most of the fellas are not fast and they are very tyre dependent.

storm42 said:

Maybe an aircooled twin is all we need, we might just need to set it up like the winner of this race

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It is impossible to buy one of those Japanese AR500 SEAR ( Suzuki Engine Auto Race) motors. There is a video somewhere on YOUTUBE showing the DOHC head being dismantled. It would be a good motor for a Seeley. You would give a G50 a fright with that. When I built my Seeley 850, I could have bought a complete DOHC 500 Jawa race bike for $1500 - I seriously considered it. - No race class !

Great race video. Clearly skinny tires rule

Ken

Fat tyres make the handling less nimble, but on a very high powered bike they allow the rider to apply more power when they take the high line in corners, because of the way they handle heat. Skinny or wide, the grip is similar when the tyres are cool. With a wide tyre, the down force is distributed over a bigger area than with a skinny tyre. The grip is a function of down force per area , until heat gets involved ? My Seeley has a 4 inch rear tyre, it wheelspins when gassed hard coming out of corners, but even with a 3.50 rear tyre, it probably would not high-side. These days, many of our historic guys use tyre-warmers. I think they are kidding themselves - very tyre-dependent ?