NorVin . Norton Vincent .

Rohan · Dec 9, 2012

acotrel said:
J.A.W and Rohan,
A Vincent is substantially different from an Indian, a good Vincent will turn out 100 BHP. It is better than any Harley or Indian ever was. Comparing one with a Hayabusa is silly, it is like comparing a racing draught horse with a racing thoroughbred.

100 bhp is more than double the stock output of a Vincent - and more even than a Black Lightning. Someone not being entirely truthfull here... ?

I grimaced when someone compared a HayaBusa to a Vincent. But the comparison is not entirely unfounded, they both were touted as the fastest in their day. Even if a ZX14 eclipsed it a week later, as someone pointed out.

An Indian has held speed records in some parts of the world, on quite a few ocassions, so don't lecture us that Indians can't be made to go. And those old 8 valve dirt track racers of the teens were strong stuff - 'throttle' controlled only by the maggie kill switch, and 100+ mph on tap, no thanks....

acotrel · Dec 9, 2012

We are both very used to cycle thread bolts on British bikes, but the Vincent is something else. For most bikes you can buy bolts from our local dealers ,they are pretty much standardised, but on a Vincent they are always different, you buy them from specialised Vincent parts dealers.
My own Seeley is a bolt nightmare. It has UNF titanium aircraft bolts, metric allen screws and nuts, cycle thread, and the usual BA screws. The spanners are all different, it takes about twenty spanners to do a simple job, like pulling the motor out of the frame.

acotrel · Dec 9, 2012

Most indians have sidevalve motors. The four valve motors were quick, but extremely rare. We have a replica racing in historics here in Australia, it performs as w ell as a Vincent, but a real Hedstrom or Riccardo Indian is unobtainium. I know Burt Munro got a sports scout going fast at Bonneville, and I suggest that comparing a Harley with an Indian is a joke. The engineering in the WD Indian Scout 500 is superb in comparison with a Harley WLA 750, and the Indian is just as fast -90 mph with a strong tail wind.. Comparing the Indians that most of us had with any Vincent, including a Comet is ridiculous.

L.A.B. · Dec 9, 2012

Rohan said:
That 'U' (for unified) in UNF etc means a lot, first time thread and bolt makers had agreed on anything.

Hmm...well, maybe not, although you could say it was perhaps the first time that an international standard had been agreed upon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thre ... ardization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Whitworth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Sellers

acotrel · Dec 9, 2012

'100 bhp is more than double the stock output of a Vincent - and more even than a Black Lightning. Someone not being entirely truthfull here... ?'

You probably don't do the same things to them that we sometimes do to speedway sidecars . The use of soup and blowers is not unknown.

acotrel · Dec 9, 2012

The only reason UNF is 'standardised' is that most aircraft come from America. Lobby groups in the US often work against standardisation to push their own barrow.

Rohan · Dec 9, 2012

acotrel said:
'100 bhp is more than double the stock output of a Vincent - and more even than a Black Lightning. Someone not being entirely truthfull here... ?'

You probably don't do the same things to them that we sometimes do to speedway sidecars . The use of soup and blowers is not unknown.

Supercharged is not exactly stock, is it....

Was offered a blown speedway outfit, a good while back.
Since condition was unknown, retreated hastily....

Rohan · Dec 9, 2012

acotrel said:
We are both very used to cycle thread bolts on British bikes, but the Vincent is something else. For most bikes you can buy bolts from our local dealers ,they are pretty much standardised, but on a Vincent they are always different, you buy them from specialised Vincent parts dealers.
My own Seeley is a bolt nightmare. It has UNF titanium aircraft bolts, metric allen screws and nuts, cycle thread, and the usual BA screws. The spanners are all different, it takes about twenty spanners to do a simple job, like pulling the motor out of the frame.

You cannot buy bolts for a preAMC Norton except from a specialised custom Norton bolt maker.
(Likewise old Indians, Or Harleys, and custom makers)

Sure, you can fit a few whitworth bolts into the engine mounts, and maybe the oil tank and fuel tank mounts, at a pinch, but thats about it. They stand out a mile as being 'wrong' though. And being coarse thread, don't do up tight very well.
Or you can bodge them with CEI from a general specialist supplier - but the head shape and finish will be wrong...

You could do what someone did, that I have met up with, and just WELD tight all the stripped bolts everywhere !!! Holy cr*p.....

Rohan · Dec 9, 2012

acotrel said:
The engineering in the WD Indian Scout 500 is superb in comparison with a Harley WLA 750, and the Indian is just as fast -90 mph with a strong tail wind.. .

90 mph ???
Must be a very strong tailwind....

There is a plate on the tank of a WLA, thats says something like exceeding 60 mph will void your life. Maybe thats not quite what it says, but its what it means !
The Indian 741 was a noted slug = 500cc of supermild sidevalve power = slower than a WD Norton 16h ?? 60mph was also unknown teritory.....

90 mph ???

J.A.W. · Dec 9, 2012

"Since condition unknown , retreated hastily" - maybe you should`ve poked your nose in closer, Rohan,it may have been chocka with top spec bits...

Matt Spencer · Dec 9, 2012

Jees , I thought the Suzuki was a image statement & a lifestyle choice . :lol:

1955 .

Rohan · Dec 9, 2012

Bought a Lodge (plug), don't remember it coming with one of those !

J.A.W. · Dec 9, 2012

Missile with a `merican in it!
Toffs at the F.I.M. sniffed & looked away...Harrumphing..

Rohan · Dec 10, 2012

The murricans didn't shoot em back the other way, for a 2 way average.

Not cricket, didn't count...

Matt Spencer · Dec 16, 2012

MORORCYCLE WORLD August 1975 . " VINCENT DRAGSTERS " .

George then added a bit of frosting to the cake by setting a British quater mile mark of 10.49 seconds ,
crossing the finish line at 140 mph .

:lol:

During these runs Brown used a two speed gearbox .

mentions slick concrette airstrip , then theres the rear tyre then . & the black stripe left the full length of the strip .

acotrel · Dec 18, 2012

My Indian 500 was as fast as a G80 Matchless. How 'fast' is that in top speed ? My friends 750 WLA was about as fast, but if you relaxed your hands on the bars, it would do a quick left turn and crash you in the gutter. I think most of those old British 500s would d o easily 85 mph. A friend had a hot 500cc Triumph, and the Indian did not see which way it went, but at least it was quick enough to escape from the cops who drove Ford Anglias, and Zephyrs. If you ever saw one on a motorcycle, the best thing to do was grab a handful of brake and stop immediately.
I don't like to think much about those days, and I wonder how I am still alive. I can remember a lot of young guys back then who never got any older.

acotrel · Dec 18, 2012

Rohan,
Most racing Norton 750s with a close box will do about 80 mph in first gear. A while back I had a 125cc MV Agusta fourstroke which would do 50mph. Up to 85mph you don't need heaps of power to overcome wind resistance. After I had the Indian I had about 8 hotted up Triumph 650s, the best would show 110 mph on the speedo, but it would out accelerate almost everything else on the road in those days, including hot Vincents. up to 100mph. After that, forget it ! The worst bike I ever rode was a 1000cc Ariel square four. It had 105 mph showing on the speedo on an airstrip. As I reached the braking point, I found out that it wouldn't stop, and there was a fence inside my braking distance . It slowed, and I climbed off it and pulled it around in a fast tight turn. Luckily the airstrip was wide enough. I got off it shaking.
You might be interested in a club sprint we once held on a grass airstrip. Best quarter mile time was just under 13 seconds by a new Super Rocket BSA 650 (?)

lcrken · Dec 18, 2012

Rohan said:
The murricans didn't shoot em back the other way, for a 2 way average.

Not cricket, didn't count...

Not really. That 193.72 mph by the Triumph powered American liner in 1955 was the average of a two way run. The reason FIM gave for not recognizing it was that there were no FIM observers present, and the timing equipment was AMA approved, not FIM. The same liner came back to the salt in 1956 and ran a two way average of 214.70 mph. They thought they had complied with the FIM requirements this time, but the FIM again refused to accept the results. The general opinion in the US at the time was that the FIM was looking hard to find a reason to not approve it, because they wanted to keep the record in Europe. Triumph actually took the FIM to court over the issue, but that's another story.

You might be thinking of the Gulf liner with the two Norton 850 engines in it. It ran over 200 mph, but was unable to make the return run for a two way average.

Ken

J.A.W. · Dec 18, 2012

By the mid `50s both the Americans & the Germans were developing radical `cigar ' type streamliner landspeed machines, maybe the crusty F.I.M. types thought that these weren`t proper motorcycles & preferred the Vincent as record run in [far from Europe] New Zealand?

Rohan · Dec 18, 2012

acotrel said:
Rohan,
Most racing Norton 750s with a close box will do about 80 mph in first gear. (?)

Enquiring minds would like to know what gearing these have fitted then ??!!
Road going Commandos have run out of revs in 1st gear below 50 mph....
And thats with taller gearing fitted, to do a max of 115mph....

My early dommie 500 (all iron engine) is listed as doing 34mph in 1st, I once calculated that as being a shade less than 7000 rpm (which is beyond redline).
And 500 dommies were one of the fastest back then, although Triumphs definitely had the edge...

NorVin . Norton Vincent .

Rohan

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