Norton Manx and 88 twins at Daytona.....

beng · Dec 8, 2012

skipsoldbikes said:
Ben Gradler was been banned from sites, had his posts deleted , and has on one site deleted them himself . All due to inaccuracy's, lies, name calling , & rants. He often trolls under various names & handles, the same derogatory remarks can be found on the various forums he lurks. Some of the info is interesting & accurate, some, not so much. According to one forum he re-appears with a new email address & new screen name to hide behind from time to time, but the imbecilic tone is unmistakable.

Anyone who talks about motorcycles long enough will be inaccurate sooner or later, and I am sure that includes me. The above is just one more cache of lies from Mr. Brolund though.

Unlike Eugene Brolund I am not Consistently inaccurate and I do not purposely lie. I have only ever been banned from one forum, BritBike, and that was of course directly in relation to Mr. Brolund and his continuing statements which in fact do fit the definition of libel and slander.

Above we have Mr. Brolund calling me an Imbecile, I will stick to calling him a liar though, because that is something that is and can be proved.

If anyone wants to call me a liar or imbecile that is fine and free speech, but if you actually look no one will ever be able to show proof of their name-calling.

The majority of what I have ever offered in my regular posts on motorcycle forums are simple facts about the bikes and those involved with them, and that is something that is easily proved.

LAB and Rohan bringing the world "disrepute" into the mix makes no sense as I can 100% document any statement I have made and will do so by request.

daveh · Dec 8, 2012

For what its worth, the reason I joined this site was to dip into the huge knowledge base on Commandos and other British bikes. A bonus is to read accounts of marque history and other things (e.g. Hobot's adventures!) that are interesting in their own right. A bit of cheerful banter and humour is good too, but it's not the main reason I read posts.

If people post information, then we should be able to politely challenge it, because that allows us to verify its accuracy. The trick is to be respectful and not descend to trading insults, even if, like Beng's, they happen to be quite articulate! On the other hand, some posters are like lawyers cross-examining expert witnesses; they don't have a specialist knowledge of the subject so they try to frustrate people. All this generates more heat than light.

L.A.B. · Dec 8, 2012

beng said:
LAB and Rohan bringing the world "disrepute" into the mix makes no sense as I can 100% document any statement I have made and will do so by request.

The majority of what I have ever offered in my regular posts on motorcycle forums are simple facts about the bikes and those involved with them, and that is something that is easily proved.

I'm sure we have all heard enough. It isn't always what one says-but often how one says it that's important, and this sort of protracted name-calling can only have a detrimental effect on forum so yes, 'beng' and 'skipsoldbikes' it is what I would describe as disreputable and it will not be allowed to continue.

Rohan · Dec 8, 2012

daveh said:
On the other hand, some posters are like lawyers cross-examining expert witnesses; they don't have a specialist knowledge of the subject so they try to frustrate people. All this generates more heat than light.

The problem here is that almost all 'experts' on motorcycle subjects are invariably self taught (where do you do classes on Norton motorcycles, or any motorcycles really ??)(does an expert on modern Harley servicing really know anything on the theory of what makes a manx go, or frame building, etc etc etc ??),

So if these 'experts' wander off their immediate subject of expertise, and its immediately obvious to anyone with any technical knowledge that they know no more than anyone else, apart from their immediate experience - its generally just opinions and hearsay and reading (which is what knowledge is all about, really, experts aren't born with it ?)

Which is not to say they don't know what they are talking about, just view what they say with a critical eye, and if anything pops out at you, a polite question can do no harm, no harm at all. There has been a lot of good info and some almost utter rubbish been posted on various Norton forums over the years - the trick is to sort the chaff from the wheat, as the saying goes. And if you watch the dynamics of forums closely, the subject will generally be steered back to safe ground by the wise and knowledgeable. Or by Bens sledgehammer approach... !

Rohan · Dec 8, 2012

daveh said:
On the other hand, some posters are like lawyers cross-examining expert witnesses;

P.S. If you don't ask any questions, then you either know it all, or will never learn ANYTHING....

daveh · Dec 8, 2012

Rohan said:
daveh said:

...the subject will generally be steered back to safe ground by the wise and knowledgeable. Or by Bens sledgehammer approach... !

Click to expand...

Yes, I hope that this will be the case here. I have learnt a lot from this forum and look forward to learning more.

Carry on!

J.A.W. · Dec 8, 2012

This forum shows a fairly mature, well moderated approach, so expressed opinions are [ & should be] varied.
When it comes to correct information , however, fact checking is best...in fact - reality checking works too, & for those who let their emotions/fantasies/lack of self awareness/mental limitations run away with them, it can be revealing...& funny, hopefully..

Rohan · Dec 9, 2012

So, with your newly acquired psychokinetic and psychoanalytical powers, is JAW going to acquire a Norton - or just lurk here and rubbish them all the time ??

J.A.W. · Dec 9, 2012

Re post stat above...gibberish is what kind of Norton, Rohan?
I like/respect/want - a decent Commando, have you got one?, How much is it worth, would you sell it?
As for rubbish, I`ll leave that to those who want it...

Rohan · Dec 9, 2012

Since you seem to be critical of everything British here, don't think I'd like to be the seller....

J.A.W. · Dec 9, 2012

Obviously Rohan, either - you have some comprehension issues, - or you are attempting to be provocative.
I ask that you note : J.D. today AGAIN reminded forum members to be civil...
Pejorative usage of terms such as "lurk" is needless, & disrespectful..
Don`t make me.. have to... tell on you...L.O.L..

Horror · Dec 9, 2012

I have just joined this forum after a google search for some Manx info led me to a post here. I read the post with interest until it turned into a slanging match of childish name calling and abuse between Rohan and Beng, ruining the content of the post. I then checked another post, which started about Dommie parts, this again turned into name calling and abuse between Beng and Skipsoldbikes. That post has now been locked and this is the same argument that was locked on the NOC forum and seems to original from the Oldbrits forum. Nobody is interested in personal vendettas. If you think someone is wrong about something, it can be said without insults and preferably with photos or documents to support your point. It shouldn’t degenerate to this..!

I have never seen anything like this before, if this were my kids on the computer being abusive like this, I'd ban them from it. I find it shameful that people that are into Norton's are acting in this way on a public forum for all to see.

We are all passionate about Norton's to want to talk to others about them and share our knowledge, but must also be open to learn from others and not dismiss their opinion because it was something we didn't know. This is lacking in social skills and their needs to be some kind of forum etiquette here.

Dances with Shrapnel · Dec 9, 2012

Welcome to the forum "Horror", great moniker by the way.

There is certainly a cast of characters on this forum and in my opinion, as in the real world, sometimes you need to take some of the bad with the good - like a box of chocolate.

I too despise when a difference of opinion morphs into a personal attack; it typically is telling of the individual doling out the vitriol. Other problems are excessive line noise akin to the little lad in the back of the class still banging on the drum when it is already 20 minutes past recess and school is in session.

Sometimes this stuff really pisses me off while sometimes I just sit back and laugh at the public mountings individuals invite themselves for.

Soon you will sort out who is who on the forum. There's certainly been some discussions about more control on the forum but it will be at the risk of loss of some very good input and insight on days when a select few are on their meds. :roll:

Mark · Dec 9, 2012

Yeah Horror, I agree with you. sad...isn't it?

Other than the childish argumentative posters, I have found that this is by far the most knowledgeable group of old bike guys on the interweb.
The amount of Norton experience here is unmatched!
I feel privileged to get to read posts from some of the true "Gurus" here.

There is an "ignore" function on this forum that blocks posts from selected members (I have a few on that list now), it helps, but with the shear number
of posts some of these guys make, some threads end up looking like transcripts of released classified documents after the censors have finished "cleaning them up".

Stick around, wade through the chaff and you will see why this is a great forum to be a part of.

L.A.B. · Dec 9, 2012

Horror said:
I have just joined this forum after a google search for some Manx info led me to a post here. I read the post with interest until it turned into a slanging match of childish name calling and abuse between Rohan and Beng, ruining the content of the post. I then checked another post, which started about Dommie parts, this again turned into name calling and abuse between Beng and Skipsoldbikes. That post has now been locked and this is the same argument that was locked on the NOC forum and seems to original from the Oldbrits forum. Nobody is interested in personal vendettas. If you think someone is wrong about something, it can be said without insults and preferably with photos or documents to support your point. It shouldn’t degenerate to this..!

I have never seen anything like this before, if this were my kids on the computer being abusive like this, I'd ban them from it. I find it shameful that people that are into Norton's are acting in this way on a public forum for all to see.

We are all passionate about Norton's to want to talk to others about them and share our knowledge, but must also be open to learn from others and not dismiss their opinion because it was something we didn't know. This is lacking in social skills and their needs to be some kind of forum etiquette here.

I hope it hasn't put you off the forum. Thankfully, this sort of thing is a reasonably rare occurrence here (but perhaps not as rare as it once was?) and is caused by a relatively small percentage of our membership, but rest assured that steps are taken by the admin./mod. (usually 'off forum') to actively discourage and eradicate blatant misconduct or misuse of the forum, although any action taken may not always be apparent to our forum members.

Horror · Dec 9, 2012

Thanks all, there is some interesting stuff on hear and I haven't had time to go through much yet. The post that got me to this site I can't find now

I'll keep looking

acotrel · Dec 9, 2012

I believe a lot of people have become more antagonistic due to the GFC. It is always there in the background creating uncertainty. I like this forum, and I cannot remember having a disagreement with anyone. My focus is probably a bit different to that of some others. If I don't like something about my bike, I attack it and re-engineer some sense into it. I still don't believe in my Seeley Commando 850, I think it is amazing that it hasn't disintegrated, and chucked me down the road. I shudder to think what that ugly crankshaft is doing when it is spinning at 7000 rpm.

J.A.W. · Dec 9, 2012

Aco, I find it curious... " still don`t believe in"... As a scientific principle - belief - per-se.. has no value...
A mechanical contrivance will function in accordance with its operational parameters or not, based on measurable input factors [ yes , & within potential variables], but belief is not required.
'Belief' is no substitute for checking,- do you `believe' that you have enough fuel in the tank , or do you check?

Rohan · Dec 9, 2012

We'd like to know why he hasn't put a steel crank (flywheel) in it yet.
So can believe in it.

As a schoolboy, I investigated this for an old dommie, so it is not exactly a new concept....

Dances with Shrapnel · Dec 9, 2012

Horror said:
The post that got me to this site I can't find now I'll keep looking

If you can recall the subject matter you can conduct a search of the forum. The search feature is handy to see what was covered and when.

Norton Manx and 88 twins at Daytona.....

beng

daveh

L.A.B.

Moderator

Rohan

Rohan

daveh

J.A.W.

Rohan

J.A.W.

Rohan

J.A.W.

Horror

Dances with Shrapnel

Mark

L.A.B.

Moderator

Horror

acotrel

J.A.W.

Rohan

Dances with Shrapnel

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