Norton Dominator 99 with K2F magneto

texasSlick said:

Here is a link that is very comprehensive and explains all that is involved in DIY magneto rebuild. Besides skill, special tools are necessary.

If you have no special love of magnetos, go for one of the EI. Rather than trash the one you have, send it to me .... I will pay the shipping!

Slick

Click to expand...

Hello,

Umm were you meant to put somesort of link to that post?

I would like to see what sort of special tools would be needed. I have lathe and milling machine so i can build tools that are needed. I also might be able to remagnetize it at work, we have department that is specialized to repairing electric motors.

Im quite not giving up my mag yet, Bodgers post made me think about the goods and bads. I have to think about if i would stay with the mag or change to el.

Oops .... sorry

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=446733#Post446733

KuusistoNorton said:

Hello,

Umm were you meant to put somesort of link to that post?

I would like to see what sort of special tools would be needed. I have lathe and milling machine so i can build tools that are needed. I also might be able to remagnetize it at work, we have department that is specialized to repairing electric motors.

Im quite not giving up my mag yet, Bodgers post made me think about the goods and bads. I have to think about if i would stay with the mag or change to el.

Click to expand...

This is a subjective and not a very scientific comparison that doesn't account for all variables, but I have 2 similar twins, one has a K2f and the other a Pazon. The EI bike starts easy, even when hot, and has very even acceleration. The mag bike starts easy when cold but is difficult when hot. You need to treat it like it is flooded (maybe it is) and eventually it will start. Acceleration definitely feels different. The mag bike seems to have more personality. I suspect the difference has something to do with the EI advance being more sophisticated than the mechanical system with the mag.

The EI bike starts easy, even when hot, and has very even acceleration. The mag bike starts easy when cold but is difficult when hot.

Click to expand...

That magneto is faulty.

Triton Thrasher said:

That magneto is faulty.

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Nah, just my technique. I've had so many other problems with the bike I just haven't run it enough to know what it likes. I wouldn't call 3-4 kicks terrible.

Bodger said:

This is a subjective and not a very scientific comparison that doesn't account for all variables, but I have 2 similar twins, one has a K2f and the other a Pazon. The EI bike starts easy, even when hot, and has very even acceleration. The mag bike starts easy when cold but is difficult when hot. You need to treat it like it is flooded (maybe it is) and eventually it will start. Acceleration definitely feels different. The mag bike seems to have more personality. I suspect the difference has something to do with the EI advance being more sophisticated than the mechanical system with the mag.

Click to expand...

I agree that mag would have more personality, but with programmable El ignition with the shape of the curve you can tune the bike the way you like even though it would have same max. advances, differences comes in with the torque at differend rpms.

Mostly with the El. Ignition i am worried about the alternator if it has enough buff to charge the system.

Bodger said:

Nah, just my technique. I've had so many other problems with the bike I just haven't run it enough to know what it likes. I wouldn't call 3-4 kicks terrible.

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Ah yes- I thought you meant really really difficult!

There’s no law against trying tickling it when it’s hot you know.

Hello,

Nothing big havent happened since last posts, but i ordered boyer rotor and stator plate from rgm norton today.

Also ordered el ignition base and going to order ignitech ignition.

I can keep you updated if someone wants to see where this goes.

So the plan is to fit el ignition using ignitech programmable ignition as "brain", but boyer stator and rotor as giving pulses to the module. Going with seperate ignition to both cyls.(no wasted spark). Also using 12v modern coils.

Plan is to strip tank and seat off, and make new wiring harness once again but going to use connectors this time and fit new ignition key(mag key fitted now) to get all sorted out.

Since theres still not many el components i think one main fuse is enough and i wont need relays either.

Hi
I would be interested in seeing how you go with EI.

Burgs

Hello,

I'll post progress as soon as i've got all parts. Im only missing the ignition unit, its been slow mailing probably because of they've been on vacation.

The aluminium body that replaces magneto and will have the el components fitted inside is actually made in Finland, designed and cnc manufactured by one hobbyist. But its similar to the one thats for sale in common webshops that sell spare parts for Norton etc.

I'll try to add some pictures in the future once i get the job started.

Hello,

Today i finally got all the parts.

I searched TDC as precisely as i could using modified spark plug, a rod and dial indicator, and then i backed it off and turned it to 8° BTDC as that will be the base advance.

All mechanical work done, i quickly wired all the necessary wires and made simple program/advance curve and started to test it out.

Not a single pulse was coming to the unit while i was kicking the engine over. I kinda was expecting that since the mV was not very convinsing.

With the stator in hand, and sweeping it with the rotor magnet i could get at best 50mV. Then i took a stronger and bigger magnet, i could get +300mV reading couple of times, but mainly was somewhere between 100-250mV. While sweeping the poles with stronger magnet i could see that the unit now did recognize it.

I could try to install the second magnet back and make it wasted spark system, but i dont believe its going to have enough juice to give big pulse enough. Tomorrow i will measure what my Moto Guzzi outputs so i can have something to compare my results(Moto Guzzi working with Ignitech without problems)

Guzzi has slightly differend sensor, i believe it has magnet core and wire wound around it, the rotor is working as triggerplate, when i was installing ignitech to Guzzi i could test the spark by touching the core with any metal tool and it gave spark to plug and my tools would stick to the core. This boyer is differend, it has steel pole that has wire wounded around it and magnet sweeps past the pole.

If i cant come up anything smart tomorror i will draw a sketch of new plate for sensors and order it laser cutted and order two induction type(magnet core) pulse sensors and trigger stator.

Edit:

I call tomorrow to local electronic shop and ask if they happen to have hall sensors, maybe i could replace the coils of the stator plate with those. The ignition unit can apply additional +5V voltage to sensors.

I forgot to attach one ground wire, now its working even even with the Boyer stator.

That will do it every time

I was not happy to the boyer stator and rotor so i had to come up with something else.

Since the its a tight fit i had to search specific sensors and luckily i found small enough to fit.

Once i got the sensors i turned new plate from alu and and also iron rotor with trigger in it.

Got it running for the first time today, not perfecy but atleast it ran. I need to do the box for the ignition unit and much more until i can ride it. Also need to try to find out wheres the precise trigger point/angle between rotor and sensor to get the timing right.

Does anyone know whats the thread at the crank where alternator rotor sits?

Ill throw a post when its ready to go for a ride.

I marked TDC to the alternator and also 8° BTDC and 32° BTDC marks.

Kicked over and it started really easily and had nice idle running. Checked timing with strobo light and the marks were slighty over 8° mark so i rotated pick up plate little bit to get it alignment, and double checked it was the same on the other side. It had small difference which i fixed with the program.

Ignition timing is set, runs smooth all the way from idle to limiter.

Probably tomorrow i will get it for a ride. Its shame that i dont really know what was wrong with the magneto, when im running it on the table it seems to give sparks seperately atleast at lower rpm.

Maybe the timing had slipped, or then it was just too much retarded because of the heavily worn cam ring and bad condenser.

Timing does slip, when the tapered fit on the armature drive end is poor. Usually goes retarded.

Timing gets erratic when the cam ring is loose or the pivoting point gets worn on its shaft.

Hello,

Runs nicely, just need to reroute few wires before its ready.

I noticed that my ammeter is showin +4A at idle but soon as i rev the bike the ammeter starts to drop go to the negative side. When i turn lights off the value is slighty over 0 amps negative side

I havent seen that its done that before, bike is negative ground polarity.

What could be wrong?

Edit: Or is it supposed to work like that? Going to negative side of the ammeter it shows that its currently charging the system and when its on positive side its discharging. With the magneto in place it never went to neg side. Should i consider there is short somewhere?

The ammeter may be connected backwards.

Idling with the headlight on, it should show a discharge. That’s the side with a -.

When you rev it up, the ammeter needle should move over to show a charge. That’s the side with a +.

Worth bearing in mind that the ammeters were sticky and erratic.

Triton Thrasher said:

The ammeter may be connected backwards.

Idling with the headlight on, it should show a discharge. That’s the side with a -.

When you rev it up, the ammeter needle should move over to show a charge. That’s the side with a +.

Worth bearing in mind that the ammeters were sticky and erratic.

Click to expand...

Hello,

Okay so the ammeter might work normally but its working backwards at the moment, need to fix that.

Edit: Everything is working normally, lights, brake light, horn, it charges the battery etc. So would the easiest fix be to just flip the two wires at the ammeter to get show correct or should i dig in to the wiring and see which wire is connected wrong.

I have had the wirings open and it might be that i have connected one wire differendly than it was.