New laws in Australia gone mad

Hobot, we are still living in democracies, if you sincerely believe we can have nil effect on the status quo as individuals, that is how it will be. I suggest that is not the true situation. We can get into conspiracy theories to disguise our own lack of balls, or we can stand up and be counted.

Ugh, Alan, the central banksters and their hired agents [BAR cards to officials/officers] have so long confused <words of art> with general public usage its impossible to discuss w/o causing severe upsets on what you've so long based false beliefs on. The Powers that be, want and need public upsets to rationalize more control over people and rights of private property use that don't hurt anyone but Gov't and their bankster handlers. I must warn you as crazy and ignorant as I come off so often - is your own future if you continue to look into this. The peoples that really know what has gone on and going on are the indigenous natives of places The City of London and Holy See visited and claimed and forced ownership over. I started out believing what Gov't fool systems taught us and got into arguments with my mentors - so tired to disprove them, to get the everlasting shock of my life, to point of vomiting for a week and still under depression. We've a small weekly study group that does world wide conferences from NZ to Canada on how to deal with US legal-political systems which bothered me at first over how Crown controlled areas could have any application to US or US of A, but deepened my depression to learn indeed it does. One of the biggest tricks was classifying people as "PERSONS", so INC's have same rights being "persons" but not same needs as living people that breath and can speak for them selves [ie: can say-take an oath] and are mortal only here for so long. All the Gov't's have to do is declare an emergency of any kind [real or created] to bypass all Constitutional or Parliamentary guides under Law of Necessity. Here's some the big pictures if ya care to get upset for rest of your lifetime.

http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/repvdem.htm
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthr ... REALLY-Is..
https://www.google.com/#psj=1&q=youtube ... +rod+class

Hobot, don't get pessimistic and depressed about something which is primarily bullshit. You can make a difference if you have faith in your fellow human beings. There are obviously people intent on manipulating others for profit - so what ? It doesn't mean we will all end up as robots. The most important thing you should do is teach your kids to think clearly and recognize the hoary old chestnuts - 'basing an argument on a false premise', 'begging the question', 'drawing a general conclusion based on insufficient evidence', and Eddy Bernays' technique of inventing a problem and providing an answer to it to benefit yourself. Also they should be able to recognize when a diversion from more important issues is being created. The only way the control freaks can succeed is by deceit which is not detected by the general public. This is something which disturbs me about Australia - the level of credibility which is assigned to idiots. We are really great believers - ideology is strong here.

Aw my poor honest Alan, I admire and respect your point of view our world should function by but its deadly misguided for reality we had forced on us a long long time ago, so my heart goes out to you to keep up such faith and how it feels to loose all faith in just being honest and fair when dealing with the powers that be or outlaw gangs. The powers that be criminals depend on others playing fair while they don't have too, so set us up with traps and propaganda otherwise. I think our baby boomer generation may be the last not to realize its the end of world of civilization soon and feel bad to pop bubble there is some hope to hang on too. The powers that be have suppressed those with better ways using Earth resources and peoples rights to life than destroying everything we depend on, irreversibly.

Alan and Hobot, you are both right, it's just Rupert's Goons ( media & government) trying to manipulate our thinking, for some other as yet unknown purpose or agenda!

P S Hobot in 1975 for a few weeks I lived next door to Honor Blackman in SW10.

acotrel said:

... This is something which disturbs me about Australia - the level of credibility which is assigned to idiots. We are really great believers - ideology is strong here.

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It is indeed strange that we think our politicians are above corruption, but I fear the reality may rock a lot of belief systems. It will be interesting to see if Clive Palmer's claims to have corruption proof has any basis in truth.

davamb said:

It is indeed strange that we think our politicians are above corruption,

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Of much greater concern than corruption, which is potentially bad enough, is sheer INCOMPETENCE ?!!!

An example which comes to mind, on a mass scale, was Hurricane Katrina. ?
Hundreds of thousands homeless, and foodless.
The Pleece and National Guard were quickly sent in to stop 'looting'.

Is that what they call it when folks are starving, and scouring the landscape for anything to feed their families.
Perhaps if they'd send in food drops it may have been more useful.

Makes you realise that clowns are running the show ?
And drawing fat salaries for doing so...

If the politicians refused to play with their cronies, then there would be no corruption.

Whenever some one wants to blame "campaign contributions" or the businessmen or the banks or the corporations or whoever it is that is paying the politicians, I call BS. The fundamental fact is that those businessmen or banksters or whoever would get ZIP if the politicians would just say no. Just say "no." The politicians makes the rules of the game. The businessmen, the lobbyists, they just play by the rules before them.

The politicians have the power and the right and the law behind them and they should say "No." They have primacy, the payors are subordinate. Plain fact. All the rest is malarkey.

Yes, of course, both are wrong. Between the two, the politician is far worse. They are the ones to denounce. They put themselves up for sale, they sell access, they sell exceptions to the laws that they write.

All this talk about the "lobbyists" and "money in politics" is a diversion, a "bright shiny object" to pull your eyes off of the true evil of the play - the politicians.

As for these dumb downunder MC laws, well that's just a diversion too - "don't look at what we are really doing, no lookie here, look at how tough we are on this disliked minority."

We all know that the good guys always win. Right?

rvich said:

We all know that the good guys always win. Right?

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Yep.
The winners always get to write the history.

If Attila the Hun or Ghengis Khan or Ethelred the Unready had been able to write, they would have painted themselves as saints... !!?

acotrel said:

Hobot, we are still living in democracies, if you sincerely believe we can have nil effect on the status quo as individuals, that is how it will be. I suggest that is not the true situation. We can get into conspiracy theories to disguise our own lack of balls, or we can stand up and be counted.

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The US Constitution has defined our govt as a Republic....but the republic has been hijacked into a democracy and the system plays to the low information voter, or as someone above has stated...."the system runs on bullshyt"

With the US constitution ( republic - i.e. rule by just law) we are all citizens with rights that no bureaucrat can bully around. Under the bullshyt democracy, we are just pieces of crap whose only function is to be docile, pay taxes, and pay homage to our governmental masters. Presently our constitution ( just law) is being trampled, and if you stand up to be counted, the IRS will be doing some counting of their own.

Yes, standing up to be counted can be effective....but only in massive numbers....the politicians only count votes. Unless those standing outnumber the low information voters, you are only pissing into the wind. Motorcyclists do not have the numbers.

Acotrel....you have been pounding the conservatives as being the cause of the Aussie thuggery....here in the US, the liberals are the thugs. Hobot is right....the banksters are running everything, and they own both parties.

Slick ( from rural America where crime is lowest, worker productivity highest, and police - community relations are still mutually respectful)

The cops'll be busy in Asia if these laws are brought in there
It should only take the cops a couple more years of intensive training to properly identify a Harley (and a patch) so the rest of us should then be left alone
Not living near a city I am yet to experience the laws but our classic bike club has always had to notify the route of the annual rally (not club runs) but there has never been a problem other than a speed trap on the side of the road
I have been away for a while so maybe things have changed but I think most of this will blow over, the problem is though in the interest of political correctness there can be no discrimination!

Jed

texasSlick said:

acotrel said:

Hobot, we are still living in democracies, if you sincerely believe we can have nil effect on the status quo as individuals, that is how it will be. I suggest that is not the true situation. We can get into conspiracy theories to disguise our own lack of balls, or we can stand up and be counted.

Click to expand...

The US Constitution has defined our govt as a Republic....but the republic has been hijacked into a democracy and the system plays to the low information voter, or as someone above has stated...."the system runs on bullshyt"

With the US constitution ( republic - i.e. rule by just law) we are all citizens with rights that no bureaucrat can bully around. Under the bullshyt democracy, we are just pieces of crap whose only function is to be docile, pay taxes, and pay homage to our governmental masters. Presently our constitution ( just law) is being trampled, and if you stand up to be counted, the IRS will be doing some counting of their own.

Yes, standing up to be counted can be effective....but only in massive numbers....the politicians only count votes. Unless those standing outnumber the low information voters, you are only pissing into the wind. Motorcyclists do not have the numbers.

Acotrel....you have been pounding the conservatives as being the cause of the Aussie thuggery....here in the US, the liberals are the thugs. Hobot is right....the banksters are running everything, and they own both parties.

Slick ( from rural America where crime is lowest, worker productivity highest, and police - community relations are still mutually respectful)

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Crime? There's nothing to steal. But in actuality...
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2 ... small-ones

Jobs? Where at Walmart? I'd live more rurally if I could make a living out there.

Community relations? You mean where they block women from access to reproductive health care? Coincidentally the only time conservatives don't mind big government in your business? New voting restrictions aimed at minorities, only trotted out after we elect our first non-white president-TWICE.?? Conservatives try to change the rules when they can't win on the merits of their argument.

Social Security and Medi Care were liberal ideas, try taking those from your elderly friends and neighbors.

Plenty of money to subsidize Fracking, sugar farmers, ethanol, oil,etc,etc. But no money for poor kids to eat before school, or meals on wheels for the elderly or anything that actually might help someone who really needs it. What would Jesus do???

The world is changing and conservatives are mad and scared...

Both sides seem convinced that they are right and the other side wrong and there is
no discussion or compromise. The conservatives think the government is taking
away their freedoms and the liberals think the Man is Keeping them Down.
At the end of the day it seems to be the same complaint.
Maybe we should just stick to chatter on Nortons and leave it at that.

I agree, too much hating going on here. Not what I look for in this forum.

To all: This politicizing on this thread needs to stop.

Every one registered on this forum has one thing in common....a love of classic motorcycles, in particular the Norton. After that , we all become different.

Some contributors on this forum can feel a part in the dark and tell which model year it came from, then which years it will cross to. Others have academic and vocational skills which they contribute to help others keep these machines going. This will go all to crap if we resort to this banal, and mostly baseless dialogue. I am surprised the moderators have not stepped in by now.

PM me if anyone wishes to debate anything I have written here....but be advised....I do not easily get sidetracked by unsubstantiated statements, mis- information, cherry picked data, cliches, and least of all, banal arguments and excuses.

To our Aussie friends.....We feel your pain and anguish on this issue of harassment towards bikers. I am hopeful it will soon pass.

Slick

'To our Aussie friends.....We feel your pain and anguish on this issue of harassment towards bikers. I am hopeful it will soon pass. '
Tex, the pain is all in the mind. Our police know very well who is a patch gang member. They are the ones with the colours, the tatts, the black motorcycles, who frequent the fortresses in our cities, and get into bashing and shooting, drugs and standover rackets. They are also the ones who run away on our highways doing about 130 mph when they see the police, and later get picked up in drug raids in country towns. Their public idiocy is an abuse of our freedoms. 'Freedom - abuse it and lose it' , and the same is about to apply to the Murdoch media, however not in Australia.

"Jobs? Where at Walmart? I'd live more rurally if I could make a living out there. "

Gotta jump in here-

Lots of ways to make a living out in the country but you have to willing to do it. I could make a lot more in Boston or back in Philly, but I Iike where I'm at and willing to make certain sacrifices to stay here.


"Social Security and Medi Care were liberal ideas, try taking those from your elderly friends and neighbors."

Social Security and Medicare-both good ideas till "those in charge" decided to use it to buy votes rather than actually take care of those it was intended for.

"Plenty of money to subsidize Fracking, sugar farmers, ethanol, oil,etc,etc. But no money for poor kids to eat before school, or meals on wheels for the elderly or anything that actually might help someone who really needs it. What would Jesus do??? "

Agree 100%-let the free market rule who wins and looses, not politicians. Your confusing Jesus with Robin Hood here.

"The world is changing and conservatives are mad and scared..."

Bullshyt-pissed off yes, scared no.

End of rant. Sorry...lets talk bikes again

As far as bikes are concerned in the globalized free market economy, we see the situation where politics get involved in motor sport. Our controlling bodies adjust the race classes to suit the big corporations and discourage small scale constructors. Before the great neoliberal convergence we had backyard guys in Australia building trick racing frames for both solos and sidecars . These days that activity is limited to chopping up good old bikes for historic racing. What it means is that Australia will never have its own industry producing motorcycles, there is no starting point. I believe that situation was created intentionally. There are obviously safety issues with home built racing bikes, however why do we scrutineer race bikes ?
I suggest we need to look where we are going :

http://vimeo.com/20789680

Good point Acotrel. Pretty much what the AMA tried to do here when Harley was no longer able to compete with pushrod V twins against foreign built machines. Mkaes you wonder what might have become of John Brittens work had he lived long enough.