John Player Special restoration project

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Now for the next question - The '74 Norton parts book lists EIGHT different meters!

Old Britts shows "none available", rather than a description.

Anyone know with certainty which meters went with the JPN?

The guy I bought the bike from has yet to give me the meters, and I'm not sure they were original to the bike.

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

grandpaul said:

Anyone know with certainty which meters went with the JPN?

Click to expand...

The Smiths or Veglia km/h speedo options wouldn't normally be fitted to US market bikes, and also wouldn't have been either of the calibrated Interpol Chronometric MPH or Km/h speedos, so that narrows it down to the standard pair of Smiths or Veglia 'green globe' items and the JPN parts list specifies: "065856, Tachometer cable (Smiths 3003/15)" which is the Smiths green globe item and as instruments were usually fitted in pairs of the same make therefore I think you have your answer.

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Yes, SSM 3001/09 1000 150MPH Green Globe Speedo and RSM 3003/15 9K RPM Green Globe Tach w/ 7-8K Red range

So, anxiously awaiting the seller to hand me the meters and see if they're correct...

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

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The right-hand side foot peg in the photos Jean posted is not original. The triangular plate that would attach to the Z plate looks original.

The upper fairing bracket shown in Grandpaul's photo is nothing like an original. I assume Jean's comment about the fairing bracket being correct is referring to the lower fairing bracket.

There is a lot of variety in the centerstands fitted to the JPN's. For a long time I thought there was one correct one, the type with the round toe catch that has a couple of 90 degree bends in it. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the progression of kickstands can chime in.

I think another tell-tale sign to consider when sizing up a JPN for originality would be the style of chainguard fitted. All correct JPN's that I've personally seen (just a few) have all been fitted with the brake inspection plug and correspondingly correct chainguard. Did all MKII A models have the rear brake inspection plug?

I believe JPN models also had a unique foot peg rubber, flattened in a similar style to the ones Paul Dunstall made.


Original fairings were made by Avon, with aftermarket ones made by Sprint. The original Avon fairings have a decal placed at the front, beneath the windscreen. A Sprint manufactured fairing would not have the Avon sticker.





Below are some photos illustrating a few of the recent talking points of the thread:


















ิ

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Looks more and more like mine is quite original, apart from the fairing, seat and mufflers, which I already knew were not original.

I've definitely got the rear brake inspection plug with the appropriate cutout in the chainguard (and it has the plastic splatter guard also).

I hope to have the bike running in a few days, but need to finish my 880 project as a top priority.

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Found my spare set of bean cans, too bad they aren't black chrome...



Chainguard detail-



No way to know for sure, but not VERY likely the coils would have been replaced; these are 01/74 manufacture



So, this battery tray won't fit the MkIII airbox?

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Still don't have the meters, but we were able to dig out one of the original mufflers. It has a stencil over the original chrome; no stamping, no decal.





Too bad it's eaten up...

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Robert_Norton said:

ิ

The right-hand side foot peg in the photos Jean posted is not original. The triangular plate that would attach to the Z plate looks original.

The upper fairing bracket shown in Grandpaul's photo is nothing like an original. I assume Jean's comment about the fairing bracket being correct is referring to the lower fairing bracket.

There is a lot of variety in the centerstands fitted to the JPN's. For a long time I thought there was one correct one, the type with the round toe catch that has a couple of 90 degree bends in it. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the progression of kickstands can chime in.

I think another tell-tale sign to consider when sizing up a JPN for originality would be the style of chainguard fitted. All correct JPN's that I've personally seen (just a few) have all been fitted with the brake inspection plug and correspondingly correct chainguard. Did all MKII A models have the rear brake inspection plug?

I believe JPN models also had a unique foot peg rubber, flattened in a similar style to the ones Paul Dunstall made.


ิ

Click to expand...

The bike I bought was bought new by the guy who sold it to me, he rode it 25 miles from the shop to his garage and it stayed there until a fire broke out. Aside from everything plastic, rubber and fiberglass being burned or charred, most of the zinc parts had melted (carbs). Being stupid at the time, I threw away all the steel parts that had rusted because the bike was burried in ice for about two months. Things like the tank, side panels, mufflers and pipes, rims, spokes all went in the garbage. I only kept what I needed to turn it into a Fastback.

The footpegs are true originals, the rubber (well what was left) that was on was round as far as I can recall. I added a cable adjuster to the brake assembly, there was none before.

The lower fairing mount was like GP's, the upper one was a fairly elaborate part the was mounted to the steering neck and that is why the SN plate was located on the top frame tube.

I suspect the factory may have fitted what they could find for footpegs which may account for some differences.

Jean

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

So, this battery tray won't fit the MkIII airbox?

[/quote]

This looks right to me. I have the same battery tray on my bike and this have the plastisk box orginal.

Jan-Egil

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

grandpaul said:

Looks more and more like mine is quite original, apart from the fairing, seat and mufflers, which I already knew were not original.

I've definitely got the rear brake inspection plug with the appropriate cutout in the chainguard (and it has the plastic splatter guard also).

I hope to have the bike running in a few days, but need to finish my 880 project as a top priority.

Click to expand...

Paul, I cant remember, Did you find the data plate? Don't throw the rotted bean cans away, If possible I would like to see whats inside.

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

The data plate is long gone, but the drillings for it are under the seat.

I'm keeping the old beancan (there is just one)

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

grandpaul said:

So, this battery tray won't fit the MkIII airbox?

Click to expand...

Basically the difference between a Mark IIA and a Mark III battery tray is that the Mark IIA battery tray has a tab for mounting the side cover. Another small difference is that the Mark III battery tray's stiffening bead has a small area flattened so that it won't rub into the gearbox cradle. So you may want to modify your existing battery tray so that it won't rub into the gearbox cradle.

The Mark IIA and the Mark III airbox is basically the same molding. You can convert your Mark III airbox to a Mark IIA configuration by removing the existing side panel mount and then plugging the three rivet holes. Also you will need to add two captive jack nuts for mounting the ignition switch/side panel bracket. Originally the captive nuts (the same nuts that are used for the top mounting bracket) are 1/4-28 which may be very difficult to find. However 1/4-20's seem to be out there. Also the opening for the engine breather is in a different location. You may or may not want to copy that as well. Last and least the John Player had the battery accessory receptacle mounted to the right hand side of the airbox and not to the battery tray. So if you have an original John Player battery tray you shouldn't see any threads in the holes where the accessory receptacle would normally be mounted.


Left hand side of a Mark IIA airbox showing where the captive jack nuts are located


Left hand side of a Mark IIA airbox with the ignition switch/side panel bracket installed



Location of breather hole on a Mark IIA airbox


I would be inclined to just keep an eye on eBay for an original Mark IIA airbox. Sometimes you can pick them up for a reasonable price.

One thing I have noticed is that the John Player parts supplement manual shows the left hand and right hand side panels having totally different part numbers then the standard Mark IIA Roadster side panels. My question is what the differences could possibly be. I know that they are painted black with no pin striping but I would think that would be a /(three digit code) after the basic part number but that is not the case. I am just wondering.


Peter Joe

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

PeterJoe said:

The Mark IIA and the Mark III airbox is basically the same molding.

Click to expand...

Excellent post, thanx for all of that info.

I sure as heck would like to know where all the original stuff for this bike ended up, my guess is it's A) in a garage down the street or B) long ago thrown in the trash...

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Big D Cycle has a copy of the JPN Parts List Supplement if anyone is interested. Their website doesn't seem to show the link anymore, but I figured it out.

https://bigdcycle.com/tempbooks/nor/jpn.pdf


Also here is a copy of the Mark II/IIA Parts book which is basically a 1973 parts book with the supplement sheets on the right side showing description and part numbers.

http://issuu.com/sealycycleservice/docs/norton-850mk2-2a_06-5988


Here is a link for an illustrated Mark IA parts supplement that L.A.B. supplied which is helpful for Mark IIA owners.

http://www.accessnorton.com/gallery/album.php?album_id=5


Of course there are omissions and errors in the parts books so it is a good idea to have a hard copy so you can make the corrections. I hope this is of some help.

Peter Joe

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

I have transcribed the JPN Parts List Supplement into an Excel spreadsheet for ease of checking off parts on-hand and compiling a "needed parts" list with columns for unit & extended qty price, etc.

If anyone wants a copy, e-mail me grandpaulz athot maildot com

There are at least a dozen parts that the Andover parts price search turned up "0" quantity/available on, some are significant like the black chrome mufflers and lower rear fairing mounts.

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Rear fairing mounts I believe we have. They are probably not listed because they are still in some box with the fairing tooling- but I remember I saw them when we had the spares laid out that came with the tooling.

Black chrome we have a major problem with. Due to environmental issues it seems impossible now to get anything black chromed. My boy´s have tried for months to get a pair of shortened Roadster silencers chromed for our "family racer" Commando, and a set of "SS" exhaust pipes for a customer. No success yet. We may have to go for ceramic coating in black!

Joe/Andover Norton

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

http://www.fairsparesamerica.com/partsn.asp

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Black ceramic would be pretty cool (although not original for the JPN)

Once I get the 880 sold, and the JPN running and cleaned up, I'll decide whether I can afford to shoot for the moon or keep it low-key.

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

The Issu link to the MK2A parts supplement is a flash shockwave which cannot be downloaded.

The trick is to go to the page source and you can pull out what it links to which is a series of JPG files

This is the first

http://image.issuu.com/150113041017-71b ... page_1.jpg

and the last

http://image.issuu.com/150113041017-71b ... age_72.jpg

You can download these to get 72 JPG files and then use a program to compile a 72 page PDF from the JPG files.

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

kommando said:

The Issu link to the MK2A parts supplement is a flash shockwave which cannot be downloaded.

Click to expand...

No need for all that, just wanted the JPN-specific parts which I got. It's only 3 pages, just under 100 line-items which is just about 2 screens of Excel spreadsheet on my laptop.