270 miles on the P11 today

-> Seattle to Artist Point Mt Baker and back

My JSM build P11 is still running smooth and it works just like a street bike should with the JS2 cam and other complementary parts in it.

I suited up and took off at 7:30am and returned at 2:28pm. 7 hours. More that 50% of the ride was on 2 lane HWY. Some very nice sweepers and a few 10mph hairpins. Destination Artist Point at 5100ft of elevation. Hands did not feel like they were ready to fall off on the way back this time. Been riding a bicycle on a trainer a lot. The bicycle helps with shoulder and wrist strength as well as endurance once you get on the other side of 70.

Old Noriyuki Haga helmet on the seat. View of I'm not sure what in the background. Bike is parked in the Artist Point parking lot. As far as you can ride on pavement, or at all near this location.

That's a beautiful area, been there a few times and will be moving up near there very soon, trailering up my N15CS. Maybe see you on the road sometime.

Schwany said:

-> Seattle to Artist Point Mt Baker and back

My JSM build P11 is still running smooth and it works just like a street bike should with the JS2 cam and other complementary parts in it.

I suited up and took off at 7:30am and returned at 2:28pm. 7 hours. More that 50% of the ride was on 2 lane HWY. Some very nice sweepers and a few 10mph hairpins. Destination Artist Point at 5100ft of elevation. Hands did not feel like they were ready to fall off on the way back this time. Been riding a bicycle on a trainer a lot. The bicycle helps with shoulder and wrist strength as well as endurance once you get on the other side of 70.

Old Noriyuki Haga helmet on the seat. View of I'm not sure what in the background. Bike is parked in the Artist Point parking lot. As far as you can ride on pavement, or at all near this location.

Click to expand...

Bike looks great and is obviously running great. Nice one!

How are the forks? I’m planning on using some on my current build.

Wow! Love that bike and love the scenery. I'm a little worried about myself. When I first retired ten years ago, I exercised every day and did 60 consecutive military pushups on my 60th birthday along with 250 sit ups. Could have gone longer, but it gets boring. After a few years I took on consulting work that requires sitting at a desk. I turn 70 in three months. I have zero energy. Probably couldn't do 25 push ups if my life depended on it. My arms are like match sticks. They creak and pop when I turn a screw driver, or take the lid off a new jar of verde sauce.

gpzkat said:

That's a beautiful area, been there a few times and will be moving up near there very soon, trailering up my N15CS. Maybe see you on the road sometime.

Click to expand...

Nice at Artist Point this time of year with the lower crowd count and weather. Best to go up there during the week. Never on weekends. The wife and I hike up there when we can. Hiking season is short if you want to hike bug free and in good weather. September after school is back in session is the best month.

Maybe meet up in Darrington sometime once you get up here.

Longtimegone said:

Wow! Love that bike and love the scenery. I'm a little worried about myself. When I first retired ten years ago, I exercised every day and did 60 consecutive military pushups on my 60th birthday along with 250 sit ups. Could have gone longer, but it gets boring. After a few years I took on consulting work that requires sitting at a desk. I turn 70 in three months. I have zero energy. Probably couldn't do 25 push ups if my life depended on it. My arms are like match sticks. They creak and pop when I turn a screw driver, or take the lid off a new jar of verde sauce.

Click to expand...

I have not tried to do a push up in a very long time. I doubt I could ever do 60. 50 maybe when I was 18 years old. I'd probably lay down and take a nap in that position today. Never cared a lot for sit ups. 250 would take 3 months doing 3 at a time. The bicycle and a little bit of hiking are the planned exercising. Yard work roof and gutter clean up keep me moving. I'm as heavy as I was 30 years ago, but only about 1/2 the strength. No complaints cuz still doing alright.

Sitting here typing on a keyboard isn't going to build much muscle mass. I think I could get back some muscle mass with dumb bells, but not enough to counter the match stick arms. I'll never be 24 years old again, darn it.

Fast Eddie said:

Bike looks great and is obviously running great. Nice one!

How are the forks? I’m planning on using some on my current build.

Click to expand...

The correct street conditions setup for CRS forks has to date been illusive for me. If you already have a set, maybe you'll have better luck setting them up for street/track. Based on my time with them they are excellent track forks. Real nice on a relatively smooth road surface, and great anti dive properties. Not so great on rougher road conditions. However, the bike tracks straight and holds a line on rough surfaces. It just beats the heck out of me.

On the flip side. I had Ohlins on a Ducati 996S. Took 3 rides to set it up. Sublime everywhere. That suspension I miss a lot.

Schwany said:

The correct street conditions setup for CRS forks has to date been illusive for me. If you already have a set, maybe you'll have better luck setting them up for street/track. Based on my time with them they are excellent track forks. Real nice on a relatively smooth road surface, and great anti dive properties. Not so great on rougher road conditions. However, the bike tracks straight and holds a line on rough surfaces. It just beats the heck out of me.

On the flip side. I had Ohlins on a Ducati 996S. Took 3 rides to set it up. Sublime everywhere. That suspension I miss a lot.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Do they have preload adjustment? Sounds like yours are a tad stiff. But as you say, perhaps right for the track.

That is a stunning road and one that require one's full attention. The scenery is quite the distraction from paying attention to the road. I was over the North Cascades Highway yesterday ang got my wife to drive so I could watch the scenery. Beautiful time of year. But alas, Smoke today in Seattle from the Skykomish fire. I believe US 2 remains closed.

Talked to some Pacific Crest Trail through-hikers yesterday who had just returned from the North end of the trail, which this year is 20 miles short of the Canadian border due to fire, they said.

Fast Eddie said:

Thanks. Do they have preload adjustment? Sounds like yours are a tad stiff. But as you say, perhaps right for the track.

Click to expand...

Yes, the CRS GP35R forks have preload adjusters.

I need to check my email communication with Csaba at CRS. I ordered lighter 30 lbs/inch springs. I remember him telling me I could always add preload spacers. The GP35R forks normally ship with 40 lbs/inch springs, which are good for a 120-140kg race bikes, and an 80kg rider. I figured I might be able to get away with a lighter set of springs on a road bike. That said my P11 probably weighs 27kg more than 140kg. So maybe the heavier springs would have worked.

I do have a couple more ideas to try before I do anything drastic, like actually take notes of what I've tried. lol

Thomasa said:

That is a stunning road and one that require one's full attention. The scenery is quite the distraction from paying attention to the road. I was over the North Cascades Highway yesterday ang got my wife to drive so I could watch the scenery. Beautiful time of year. But alas, Smoke today in Seattle from the Skykomish fire. I believe US 2 remains closed.

Talked to some Pacific Crest Trail through-hikers yesterday who had just returned from the North end of the trail, which this year is 20 miles short of the Canadian border due to fire, they said.

Click to expand...

Was thinking it might have been a no fires smoke free summer all the way to the end, but no. It's getting a little better here in Seattle this evening. Smelled like an oh so considerate neighbor was burning yard waste all day. None were, but it does happen.

It stunk of smoke on my way up to Artist Point yesterday but was almost imperceptible once I got up there.

Funny you should mention site seeing on the road. On my way back when I could see a lot better with the sun at my back, I was lamenting how little one really does get to look at the surrounding beauty when riding a motorcycle begging to have its neck rung on a tight winding road. I'm OK with it, because I do like to ride, but it is kind of a shame.

I'm impressed. 270 miles on one of those bone shakers is a good accomplishment for anyone, and particularly at 70+ years of age. I'm 80, and my usual rides are 80 - 90 miles of chasing my younger friends on mostly twisty road, on a comfy modern bike, and I'm worn out afterwards.

Ken

Schwany said:

Yes, the CRS GP35R forks have preload adjusters.

I need to check my email communication with Csaba at CRS. I ordered lighter 30 lbs/inch springs. I remember him telling me I could always add preload spacers. The GP35R forks normally ship with 40 lbs/inch springs, which are good for a 120-140kg race bikes, and an 80kg rider. I figured I might be able to get away with a lighter set of springs on a road bike. That said my P11 probably weighs 27kg more than 140kg. So maybe the heavier springs would have worked.

I do have a couple more ideas to try before I do anything drastic, like actually take notes of what I've tried. lol

Click to expand...

Thanks, that’s interesting, given the weight of your bike etc I’m with you, your specified springs should be soft.
Assuming the springs are soft enough, the only options I can come up are:
A) Bottoming out. Unlikely I guess as you’d know this was the case.
B) Overly hard damping. Damping adjusted overly hard can essentially prevent the forks working over a series of bumps as the damping isn’t being allowed to react fast enough, essentially almost locking them up.
Maybe try radically backing off the comp and rebound damping, like to the minimum, just to see what it does?
And make sure you know which way the adjuster's work! When I first bought my MV I had a ‘pro’ adjust the forks and it was horrid. Basically all he’d done was revert to factory settings… BUT… he’d got mixed re which way the dampers work and had jacked the damping up way too hard !
Teach me for trusting a ‘pro’ I guess !!

+1 on the above. And if you're at the softest settings and not bottoming out, the springs may be overly stiff

and FWIW, the springs IKON shipped me are 17/24/31 progressive springs (knowing a P11 is a different configuration than a Commando). I have 0 miles on them though to provide any feedback

And nice scenery BTW. Used to live in Bremerton in the 70's. It blows away the east coast (once you get used to the weather)

lcrken said:

I'm impressed. 270 miles on one of those bone shakers is a good accomplishment for anyone, and particularly at 70+ years of age. I'm 80, and my usual rides are 80 - 90 miles of chasing my younger friends on mostly twisty road, on a comfy modern bike, and I'm worn out afterwards.

Ken

Click to expand...

My guess is at 80 years I won't know which way is up. Too much Cailfornia partying in my youth.

I've gone further on the bone breaker. The ride over HWY 20 to Winthrop is 370 miles round trip, but a bit smoother than the ride up Mt Baker. Did the Winthrop ride before all the motor work. Right wrist was hurting on that ride the last 15 miles. I get tired, and my back is killing me, but still have enough energy to clean up the bike, lube the chain, and fill a wine glass a few times.

Every time I take off and do a more than 150 miles, I consider buying something new, but I resist. If (big if) I get my suspension dialed in on the bone breaker, it won't really be bad at all. The motor vibrates, but not nearly as bad as a stock motor does.

Fast Eddie said:

Thanks, that’s interesting, given the weight of your bike etc I’m with you, your specified springs should be soft.
Assuming the springs are soft enough, the only options I can come up are:
A) Bottoming out. Unlikely I guess as you’d know this was the case.
B) Overly hard damping. Damping adjusted overly hard can essentially prevent the forks working over a series of bumps as the damping isn’t being allowed to react fast enough, essentially almost locking them up.
Maybe try radically backing off the comp and rebound damping, like to the minimum, just to see what it does?
And make sure you know which way the adjuster's work! When I first bought my MV I had a ‘pro’ adjust the forks and it was horrid. Basically all he’d done was revert to factory settings… BUT… he’d got mixed re which way the dampers work and had jacked the damping up way too hard !
Teach me for trusting a ‘pro’ I guess !!

Click to expand...

Not exactly my first rodeo with suspenders. I have done all that except the pro suspension tuner bit. I deleted all my what I've tried talk, as it can go on forever. Appreciate the advice anyway.

In my experience it is not uncommon for Showa forks to be less than compliant over square edged bumps, and the CRS forks internals are based on older Showa design. The forks are not bottoming. I'm using about 90% of the travel on hard braking. The forks do exhibit slight stiction initially almost as if the stanchions are not running straight all the way to the axle. I'll be working on that today. Using a simple tape measure, the stanchions appear to run straight, but it's real hard to get the measurement through the tire. The way the axle is installed currently is not really ideal. It could be pinching or pushing out the forks a little at the axle. Going to correct all that today and see how it goes.

The adjusters are marked for direction of adjustment although a PITA to see. I have run the forks in full soft on compression damping and full fast on rebound damping with the correct static weight preload height. The shocks do bottom according to my zip tie around the shaft, but what I am not sure of is if the zip tie gets knocked down to the bump stop by jarring rather than the action of the shock body. Shocks are mounted with the body up top and bump stop on the shaft at the bottom. Upside down from the traditional Koni. I'm turning the adjusters in the right directions. Just not making it happen so far. It might be impossible to get an Ohlins feel with CRS suspension. Not exactly unexpected, but I had hoped to get kind of close.

I checked my order communication with CRS. 30 lbs/inch springs in the forks. I need to figure out a way to weigh my bike. I'm fairly confident I can't pick it up, hold it in my arms, and stand on a bathroom scale. lol

More later...

I have no experience with modified suspension on a P11 but I have modified my Commando to make it a better touring ride. I added progressive springs up front and Koni adjustable damping shocks (ca. 1995) behind again with progressive springs. That simple change has made is a comfortable tourer. It vibrates less at road speed than my R100 BMW. I have an Atlas with stock suspension (Road Holders and Girlings) and it is sportier than the Commando but doesn't beat me up. With the Atlas it's the vibration at anything less than 65MPH. I long ago changed the balance factor to raise the sweet spot and now I don't ride as fast as I used to. I do recall that my G15 vibrated much less than the Atlas and I had changed the balance factor on that too but I don't remember to what. The P11 again is a different frame but having never had one I can't comment on the vibration/balance factor but comfy suspension is worth the effort especially if you're interested in the scenery.

Thomasa said:

I have no experience with modified suspension on a P11 but I have modified my Commando to make it a better touring ride. I added progressive springs up front and Koni adjustable damping shocks (ca. 1995) behind again with progressive springs. That simple change has made is a comfortable tourer. It vibrates less at road speed than my R100 BMW. I have an Atlas with stock suspension (Road Holders and Girlings) and it is sportier than the Commando but doesn't beat me up. With the Atlas it's the vibration at anything less than 65MPH. I long ago changed the balance factor to raise the sweet spot and now I don't ride as fast as I used to. I do recall that my G15 vibrated much less than the Atlas and I had changed the balance factor on that too but I don't remember to what. The P11 again is a different frame but having never had one I can't comment on the vibration/balance factor but comfy suspension is worth the effort especially if you're interested in the scenery.

Click to expand...

As I recall the 750 Commando I had was a good highway cruiser, and probably good on most all road conditions. The P11 is different for sure. My P11 engine is fairly smooth. Smooth as a modern bike at 55-60mph for looking around on rural roads. Crank has 62% balance factor and is a little lighter than a stock crank. Also has JSM rods and pistons in it. Not like a stock motor underway. Only complaint is the suspension, but I'll either figure it out or replace it with overpriced parts that work.

Schwany said:

I need to figure out a way to weigh my bike. I'm fairly confident I can't pick it up, hold it in my arms, and stand on a bathroom scale. lol

More later...

Click to expand...

Take a long 2x6 to ramp on to get both wheels 2" off ground at same time. Put bathroom scale in front of 2x6. Roll bike onto it and front wheel onto scale. Weigh front wheel holding bike upright with a light hand. Repeat backwards for back tire. Add weights.

gortnipper said:

Take a long 2x6 to ramp on to get both wheels 2" off ground at same time. Put bathroom scale in front of 2x6. Roll bike onto it and front wheel onto scale. Weigh front wheel holding bike upright with a light hand. Repeat backwards for back tire. Add weights.

Click to expand...

Got me to thinking I could also go to the dump landfill or whatever the politically correct term is and get the whole enchilada weighed for a couple of dollars.