Norton project identification – plunger frame 435xx, 79x100 engine (1920s/30s/40s?)

[AdrianM]

Hello everyone,

First of all, a brief introduction. My name is Adrian, I am based in Poland and work as a vehicle appraiser specialising in historic vehicles. I am also accredited within the Classic Data system in Germany.

I would greatly appreciate your help in identifying this Norton project.

I am trying to establish as much detail as possible, including:
- exact model,
- approximate year of production,
- what the correct engine specification should be,
- and whether the parts shown in the photos belong together as a matching set.

It is quite possible that I will also be looking for missing components in the future to complete the bike, so any guidance in that direction would also be very helpful.

Many thanks in advance for your time and expertise.

Kind regards,
Adrian

01. Frame from the left side with a different engine (that's what I received information):
02. Frame number (435xx):
03. The engine is from this model (that's what I received, but is the engine number different from the frame number?):
04. Frame - general view:
05. Frame from the right side - general view:
06. Steering wheel, front suspension and fuel tank:
07. Saddle:
08. Covers:
09. License plate base
10. Frame, steering wheel, front suspension and fuel tank: https://imgur.com/AoCgEz5

 

[AdrianM]

10. Frame, steering wheel, front suspension and fuel tank:

 

[kommando]

None of your pictures are showing, I think imgur has an issue with the UK and blocks us or my PiHole assumes its ads. I use https://postimages.org/ and that does work for UK and most other places.

 

[t ingermanson]

The pics are up for me (USA).

 

[AdrianM]

None of your pictures are showing, I think imgur has an issue with the UK and blocks us or my PiHole assumes its ads. I use https://postimages.org/ and that does work for UK and most other places.

Thank you very much for the information, Kommando, I'm getting started on this. I was wondering why there was such silence :/ so now I understand!

 

[AdrianM]

The pics are up for me (USA).

I understand, thank you for the information T ingermanson.

 

[AdrianM]

So I used Postimages and shared a gallery with the above photos that wouldn't load. Here's the link (hopefully it works now): https://postimg.cc/gallery/8s3f0bk
I will try to post the same photos below separately and allow myself to post my welcome text with a request.

Hello everyone,

First of all, a brief introduction. My name is Adrian, I am based in Poland and work as a vehicle appraiser specialising in historic vehicles. I am also accredited within the Classic Data system in Germany.

I would greatly appreciate your help in identifying this Norton project.

I am trying to establish as much detail as possible, including:
- exact model,
- approximate year of production,
- what the correct engine specification should be,
- and whether the parts shown in the photos belong together as a matching set.

It is quite possible that I will also be looking for missing components in the future to complete the bike, so any guidance in that direction would also be very helpful.

Many thanks in advance for your time and expertise.

Kind regards,
Adrian

 

[L.A.B.]

To add full size pictures to a message you can use the 'Hotlink for forums' option in Postimages.

 

[kommando]

Engine year is 1933. SV of 500cc from the 79x100 so a 16H.

 

[AdrianM]

To add full size pictures to a message you can use the 'Hotlink for forums' option in Postimages.

Thank You L.A.B.!

 

[AdrianM]

 

[kommando]

Engine year is 1933. SV of 500cc from the 79x100 so a 16H but a rigid not a plunger frame. Frame and engine numbers did not match until 1945, so you have to enquire at NOC or VMCC to see if those numbers left the factory as one bike.

 

[mdt-son]

Interesting find! How did an apparent 1939 model 16H end up in Poland? Ex-military bike for hauling a sidecar equipped with a machine gun? Or a British dispatch bike left in Germany and shipped to Poland in the post-war era?

- Knut

From Wikipedia:

After the end of hostilities in 1945 there were many thousands of Norton Model 16H motorcycles all over the world. Some continued in use by the British and Commonwealth Armed forces until the end of the 1950s. Many were sold by the War Department to other armed forces, including the Dutch, Belgian, Danish, Greek and Norwegian Army which used the 16H throughout the 1950s. The remainder were sold to dealers who converted them to civilian colours and specifications. The civilian Norton had a short center stand and the usual rear wheel mounted main stand. The girder fork springs, wheel rims and the headlamp were chromed giving it a more refined look. Not many Civilian Norton 16H motorcycles with girder frames were made making them the rarest of this model.

 

[AdrianM]

Engine year is 1933. SV of 500cc from the 79x100 so a 16H but a rigid not a plunger frame. Frame and engine numbers did not match until 1945, so you have to enquire at NOC or VMCC to see if those numbers left the factory as one bike.

Hi Kommando,

Thanks for the specific information – it's very helpful.

At this stage, I'm most interested in identifying the frame as precisely as possible – its model and approximate year of production. If possible, I'd be happy to go a step further and try to confirm the history of the numbers.

Could you provide the full names of the NOC and VMCC organizations and – if you have any – any reliable contact details where I should direct my inquiry?

From what I've gathered:
- NOC is the Norton Owners Club,
-VMCC is the Vintage Motor Cycle Club.

VMCC even has a department dedicated to vehicle archives and identification, which you can contact directly (e.g., email: general@vmcc.net, tel. +44 1283 495100).

If you have any experience with the best person/department to contact there, I'd be very grateful for any suggestions.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[AdrianM]

Thank you all so much for your interest in my topic
Mdt-son – I also thank you for your dedication and specific suggestions.

As I wrote earlier, every piece of information – even the smallest – is very valuable to me. At this stage, my primary concern is correctly identifying the model. If I decide to rebuild it (and I would very much like to), I want to do it consciously and as close to the factory specifications as possible.

I admit that I've never owned a motorcycle, although I got my driver's license a long time ago. I also do some professional work – I'm an appraiser and deal with vintage and collectible vehicles. The more I research and read, the more captivated I become by your automotive history.

At the moment, I have a few questions and would be grateful for any advice:

- Could the frame come from a 16H model? Are there any distinctive details that allow me to clearly distinguish it from other models?
- The photos show the engine mounted in the frame – but to be clear: according to the previous (Norwegian) owner, the original engine is the one that was damaged/welded. The current one differs, among other things, in the lack of a flange – could this suggest anything about its year of manufacture?
- Can the frame number (435xx) be used to determine the approximate year of manufacture?
- Should the engine and frame numbers match? On mine, the engine number (543xx) is higher than the frame number.

I would be truly grateful for any help – I want to approach the rebuild as thoroughly as possible and with the utmost respect for the original.

Thanks again!

 

[t ingermanson]

Roy Bacon's book, "Norton Singles Ohv & Sv: 1931 - 1966", might help you sort some of this out. I don't know how accurate it is. His book covering twins has some minor errors, but overall a very good reference.

 

[marinatlas]

Contents page

Did you know this one , it could help you ...

 

[kommando]

From what I've gathered:
- NOC is the Norton Owners Club,
-VMCC is the Vintage Motor Cycle Club.

VMCC even has a department dedicated to vehicle archives and identification, which you can contact directly (e.g., email: general@vmcc.net, tel. +44 1283 495100).

Not used the VMCC and only used NOC for 70's bikes. What the VMCC have the advantage for is they seem to answer general questions via email without asking for funds.

library@vmcc.net

The info I posted was based solely on the engine number 543XX, it being a side valve case and the 79X100 stamp tells you it's a 500cc ie a 16H. Engine and frame numbers ex factory did not match until 1945 so you use the engine number for dating. The frame was common to a number of models so swapping of different engines was easy.

1933 54120 to 56140