Insurance value estimate

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Schwany said:
I'm thinking an insurance company could agree to just about anything, but not pay that number when a vintage used motorcycle was totaled. Add ons and upgrades generally won't be covered unless mentioned in writing in the policy. You guys talking insurers into an agreed value of $20K for a Commando are good talkers.

Last time I talked to Hagerty they wouldn't insure my Norton. Claimed it wasn't vintage enough and not worth enough to insure. This was 6 years ago though before they really got into boats and bikes. My hot rod Chevy is underinsured with Hagerty.

I only buy liability insurance for my Norton. It's only worth pocket change. Kidding, but it isn't worth much.
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I don't think you've got that right. Under an agreed value policy if the insured item is totally destroyed or stolen and not recovered the insurance company pays the agreed value less any deductible. It's not like a typical auto policy that will only pay market value. You and the insurance company have come to an agreement of what the item is worth and you are paying accordingly. The insurer will not over insure to avoid fraud. If you have something unusual or irreplaceable they will insist on an appraisal and will impose conditions and you will pay accordingly.

Hagerty should insure your Norton as it's at least 46 years old. I've been with them for at least a decade or more.

EDIT: I just used Hagerty's valuation tool for a MKIII. It comes in between 6-12k. They should write a policy in that range with photos to establish the condition.
 
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JimNH said:
I don't think you've got that right. Under an agreed value policy if the insured item is totally destroyed or stolen and not recovered the insurance company pays the agreed value less any deductible. It's not like a typical auto policy that will only pay market value. You and the insurance company have come to an agreement of what the item is worth and you are paying accordingly. The insurer will not over insure to avoid fraud. If you have something unusual or irreplaceable they will insist on an appraisal and will impose conditions and you will pay accordingly.

Hagerty should insure your Norton as it's at least 46 years old. I've been with them for at least a decade or more.

EDIT: I just used Hagerty's valuation tool for a MKIII. It comes in between 6-12k. They should write a policy in that range with photos to establish the condition.
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Maybe so. Have you totaled a Norton with an agreed upon value in the $20K range yet? Seems to me there might be some haggling about value when it comes time to pay up. Being wrong doesn't bother me. I'm married, and accustomed to being wrong.

I don't own a Commando. I own a modified P11. Hagerty was not interested in insuring a modified P11 at the time. Stock was mentioned as a requirement. I might have just got a cranky agent that day. Doesn't matter. I ran the valuation tool. Came up with $9,800 if in good stock condition. There would be games insuring my bike for anything other than liability the way it is setup currently. If I tried to restore it to stock, so I could insure it without games, I'd be in it further upside down than I already am.

I don't know what that Yellow Norton Commando is really worth. Hagerty would insure it though, no questions asked. How about $9800?
 
For my agreed value policy, I provided my xls with parts totals for the rebuild as well as photos after it was done. The agreed value is very high. They had no problem with paying out for my low speed low side in March, which would almost total the bike for the low-end values mentioned above.
 
I have my Commando insured with JC Taylor as well as my other “ Historic Vehicle “ bikes . The Commando went under water up to the axles in Sandy . I sent them pictures and they totaled it for the value at the time which was something a little north of $4k and let me keep bike and title . I kept the insurance up but the value was lowered to next to nothing until I rebuilt it . When all done I sent them receipts totaling a little more than $12 k and we now have an agreed value of $15 k . I was not allowed to include my labor. If I had started a paper company and paid myself I could have included my time .
Had something happened to bike after completion but before putting it back on the road - fire , theft etc. - I would have been screwed but fortunately all is good .
 
Richard Tool said:
I have my Commando insured with JC Taylor as well as my other “ Historic Vehicle “ bikes . The Commando went under water up to the axles in Sandy . I sent them pictures and they totaled it for the value at the time which was something a little north of $4k and let me keep bike and title . I kept the insurance up but the value was lowered to next to nothing until I rebuilt it . When all done I sent them receipts totaling a little more than $12 k and we now have an agreed value of $15 k . I was not allowed to include my labor. If I had started a paper company and paid myself I could have included my time .
Had something happened to bike after completion but before putting it back on the road - fire , theft etc. - I would have been screwed but fortunately all is good .
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Same. My labor not included.
 
My Insurance company paid me to fix my Triumph Daytona after it was hit by a deer.
They wouldn't pay the shop rate of $115 per hour and they used their estimate for hours required, but I was very pleased with the arrangement.
The labour rate was $40 per hour.
I guess most of us would happily toil away on our MCs for $40 per hour.
The Dealer looked at it as well and threatened to tell the insurer that it was a write-off.
This is a bike that , other than the broken plastic pieces, looked like it just rolled out of the showroom, less than 10k miles covered. We are a wasteful society!


Glen
 
worntorn said:
My Insurance company paid me to fix my Triumph Daytona after it was hit by a deer.
They wouldn't pay the shop rate of $115 per hour and they used their estimate for hours required, but I was very pleased with the arrangement.
The labour rate was $40 per hour.
I guess most of us would happily toil away on our MCs for $40 per hour.
The Dealer looked at it as well and threatened to tell the insurer that it was a write-off.
This is a bike that , other than the broken plastic pieces, looked like it just rolled out of the showroom, less than 10k miles covered. We are a wasteful society!


Glen
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10 years ago, on holiday, I slid on gravel on a bend and dropped a 2yo Ducati. Low speed. Scuffed one fairing panel, 2" of paint scratched on the frame and swingarm. I carried on riding it. It rode beautifully! They wrote it off, £10k. It was the insurer's policy to do that with any frame damage. Shocking.
 
I've had some claims with regular motorcycle insurance on newer bikes and come out alright. Twice on a 1996 Ducati 996S where the damages less labor came in lower than a total. The 996S was a $33K out the door motorcycle back then. I submitted parts lists from repair shops, and I repaired that bike twice. Second time off was after hitting a deer I killed. Prior to all that fun, I hit a patch of gravel I could not see that went across the road in a turn in the dappled shade and ran a 1990 Yamaha FZR1000 into a bridge at about 70mph and went over the side into a creek on the bike. That was a total. I got retail replacement value for that one, and a permanently stiff neck.

Only thing I'm confused about is an insurance company agreeing that a Norton Commando is worth more than $20K. The 2 wheel vintage old iron world passed me by when I wasn't looking I guess.
 
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Schwany said:
Only thing I'm confused about is an insurance company agreeing that a Norton Commando is worth more than $20K. The 2 wheel vintage old iron world passed me by when I wasn't looking I guess.
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Ever heard of Colorado Norton Works?

Thanx to them, almost ANY Commando that appears to be very well assembled with enough custom bits, and a paper trail to substantiate it, can be worth over $20K. Certainly as an agreed value that you pay a premium for.

For insurance companies. it's just math, actuarial tables, and percentages. If they can "probably" make money doing it, they'll do it.
 
grandpaul said:
Ever heard of Colorado Norton Works?

Thanx to them, almost ANY Commando that appears to be very well assembled with enough custom bits, and a paper trail to substantiate it, can be worth over $20K. Certainly as an agreed value that you pay a premium for.

For insurance companies. it's just math, actuarial tables, and percentages. If they can "probably" make money doing it, they'll do it.
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Grandpaul has hit the nail squarely on the head. Insurance Actuaries are likely the most accurate oddsmakers on the planet .
It is really all a wager - the insured is betting they will have misfortune and the insurer is betting they won’t.
 
Richard Tool said:
Insurance Actuaries are likely the most accurate oddsmakers on the planet. It is really all a wager - the insured is betting they will have misfortune and the insurer is betting they won’t.
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I say, Willis, check www.accessnorton.com and see if the applicant is a member. If he's not listed, raise the premium 25%...
 
grandpaul said:
Ever heard of Colorado Norton Works?

Thanx to them, almost ANY Commando that appears to be very well assembled with enough custom bits, and a paper trail to substantiate it, can be worth over $20K. Certainly as an agreed value that you pay a premium for.

For insurance companies. it's just math, actuarial tables, and percentages. If they can "probably" make money doing it, they'll do it.
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CNW and NYC Norton bikes are an exception, and I do get that. I was thinking more along the lines of a perfect shinny clean restoration no e-start. Anywho, yeah, things have changed. Didn't mean to start too much of a ruckus. Just a little one. ;)
 
There was a very nicely done 74 850 on eBay recently that sold for $16,750, so 20K is not out of line.
 
Richard Tool said:
let me keep bike and title
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That's very nice of them. It certainly doesn't work that way with airplanes. If they total it they keep it and auction it off. The difference being the salvage value of airplane parts is very high. Unless it's been rolled in a ball and burned to the ground things like the engine can still be worth 20 grand +, avionics as much, undamaged parts are totally reusable and even damaged parts may be rebuildable.

The rising prices of older planes means one has to be very careful not to under insure as the insurance company could theoretically make money by declaring the plane a total loss. An example would be one that just got a new engine, prop, and avionics to the tune of 50k+ and the owner doesn't up the agreed value. The plane is sitting on the ramp when a hail storm dents all the upper surfaces, which will total most light planes. Insurance company pays and at auction the salvage may actually go higher than the payout.

We have to be careful not to under insure our bikes. Mine is insured for 10 but I haven't seen another as nice for that in a while so at next renewal I'll up it.
 
JimNH said:
That's very nice of them. It certainly doesn't work that way with airplanes. If they total it they keep it and auction it off. The difference being the salvage value of airplane parts is very high. Unless it's been rolled in a ball and burned to the ground things like the engine can still be worth 20 grand +, avionics as much, undamaged parts are totally reusable and even damaged parts may be rebuildable.

The rising prices of older planes means one has to be very careful not to under insure as the insurance company could theoretically make money by declaring the plane a total loss. An example would be one that just got a new engine, prop, and avionics to the tune of 50k+ and the owner doesn't up the agreed value. The plane is sitting on the ramp when a hail storm dents all the upper surfaces, which will total most light planes. Insurance company pays and at auction the salvage may actually go higher than the payout.

We have to be careful not to under insure our bikes. Mine is insured for 10 but I haven't seen another as nice for that in a while so at next renewal I'll up it.
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Had I not been able to keep bike & title I would not have accepted the payout. It may have been helpful that I built a vacation home for the CEO of the company- just sayin’ ...
Nothing inexpensive when it comes to airplanes . A buddy of mine has an older Cherokee with a nose gear oleo that needs a rechrome as it is tearing up seals . It may cost him $ 1000. for the chrome job plus labor for the A&P mechanic. I had my footrests , gearchange lever , kickstart lever and headlamp shell redone beautifully for $ 300.
 
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Schwany said:
I'm thinking an insurance company could agree to just about anything, but not pay that number when a vintage used motorcycle was totaled. Add ons and upgrades generally won't be covered unless mentioned in writing in the policy. You guys talking insurers into an agreed value of $20K for a Commando are good talkers.

Last time I talked to Hagerty they wouldn't insure my Norton. Claimed it wasn't vintage enough and not worth enough to insure. This was 6 years ago though before they really got into boats and bikes. My hot rod Chevy is underinsured with Hagerty.

I only buy liability insurance for my Norton. It's only worth pocket change. Kidding, but it isn't worth much.
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They insured my '74 MK II for $8500 (what I paid for it) for $179 a year.
 
I have a Agreed value of 10k USD on my 73 Mk1 with Progressive ins here in the states
 
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